Wealth Development Strategies With Opportunity Zones, An OZ Pitch Day Panel

How are High Net Worth investors using Opportunity Zones to build generational wealth? What opportunities are investors overlooking when it comes to this program?

Brad Molotsky at Duane Morris, Gerry Reihsen at Reihsen & Associates, and Kirk Walton at GPWM Funds, participated in a live OZ Pitch Day panel on March 23rd to discuss some best practices to develop wealth with Opportunity Zones.

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Episode Highlights

  • How High Net Worth investors and family offices can maximize the benefits of the Opportunity Zone program.
  • How Opportunity Zone investments can be thought of as Super Roth IRAs.
  • Advantages of Qualified Opportunity Funds over 1031 exchanges and other tax advantaged structures.
  • The reasons for slow adoption among investors who could derive significant value from the OZ program.
  • Detailed discussion of the applicable deadlines, and how investors can either maximize or minimize the time horizon of their positions.
  • Commonly underestimated aspect of the OZ incentive.

Today’s Guests: Kirk Walton, Gerry Reihsen, And Brad Molotsky

The Wealth Development Strategies With Opportunity Zones

About The Opportunity Zones & Private Equity Show

Hosted by OpportunityDb and WealthChannel founder Jimmy Atkinson, The Opportunity Zones & Private Equity Show features guest interviews from fund managers, advisors, policymakers, tax professionals, and other foremost experts in Opportunity Zones and the broader private equity landscape.

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Show Transcript

Jimmy: We are talking wealth development strategies with Opportunity Zones. “Wealth development or building wealth with OZs” is kind of the unofficial theme of this year’s OZ Pitch Day or this iteration of OZ Pitch Day. We had our opening keynote fireside chat with Andy Hagens, it was all about building generational wealth with ALTs. And we’ve had some wealth topics sprinkled throughout some of the presentations today, as well. Taylor was just speaking about StarPoint Properties and how their goal is to build generational wealth for their clients.

Kirk, I wanted to actually start with you, there you are. You and I have been talking for some time, Kirk, we met… I don’t know year and a half back at a Novogradac event. And you mentioned something interesting to me, and I kind of want your thoughts on it to kind of get the ball rolling here. You seem to believe that QOFs are probably the most efficient, tax-efficient way to hold real estate. And it has the potential to be like a super Roth. Can you explain what you mean by that to kind of get the ball rolling on the conversation today?

Kirk: Thank you, Jimmy. Happy to join you guys, it’s great to be here today, really enjoying the presentations so far. And that’s a great question. I’ve been beating the drum about how there’s a more efficient way to utilize the Opportunity Zone Fund for the ultra-wealthy. Our background is running family office for ultra-wealthy people. And I’m a tax lawyer and estate planning attorney by background as well as managing the investments. And we utilize the Opportunity Zone Funds for our family office clients first, and then we’ve launched it further, from people who heard me talk about this concept that you mentioned.

The regulations allow for reinvesting of cash flow from transactions on interim transactions inside the fund. And most Opportunity Zone Funds are sending the money back to the investors. But if you’re an ultra-wealthy family, you may not need the cash, and it might be more advantageous to take the money from the cash flow, and cash out refi events or even sale of a partial asset like a PAD and excess land and reinvest that into more and more Opportunity Zone assets. Like you would the dividends inside a Roth IRA on the stocks that you hold in your Roth IRA, you’re not taking the dividend checks and sending them to your checking account where they’re gonna be invested somewhere subject to tax, you reinvest them back inside the Roth IRA and keep them sheltered.

The other way it’s very like a Roth IRA is the long-term timeframe. Everyone knows that 10 years is the bare minimum that is needed to get the tax benefits. But for a Roth IRA, you can cash out your Roth IRA after a bare minimum of five years and reaching age 59 and a half. But nobody cashes out their Roth IRAs at age 59 and a half with five years of ownership. Because unless you desperately need the cash, you can continue to increase tax-free growth inside the Roth IRA. Similarly, your Opportunity Zone Fund can continue to deliver massive tax benefits after the 10-year mark.

And the logic that applies today of whether it’s better to put your money into a tax-efficient vehicle, or in a taxable account also applies 10 years from now, when you have the option to sell and remove it from a tax-sheltered vehicle and put it back into a taxable account. And so our game plan is to try to find core assets that you would wanna hold for a very long time in key markets and then monetize them with a cash-out refi rather than a liquidation, continue to benefit from the depreciation deductions which are not subject to depreciation recapture. So, you wanna go as long as possible to maximize those benefits. I really feel like the Opportunity Zone Fund is maximized when you view it similar to a Roth IRA.

Jimmy: No, that’s great. Great way to start the conversation today, Kirk. And by the way, gentlemen, forgive me, I forgot to introduce the three of you. So, joining the panel today are Brad Molotsky partner at Duane Morris, Gerry Reihsen, of Risen & Associates and Kirk Walton is managing partner at GPWM Funds. They are Opportunity Zone investment leaders that I’ve been following for quite some time. Brad and Gerry, do you have any comments or follow-up on what Kirk just had to say?

Brad: I agree. I think that Kirk’s point as usual, as always, is spot on, the ability to generate money within the structure exists, the ability to utilize some other structuring relative to, if you’re thinking about investment tax credits, can also be used to allow for cash flow to go to an investor and have the ITC shelter them and have depreciation shelter them for their normal cash flow that they would get that would be taxable. So, various some earlier have said it’s a very efficient way to invest, grow, sell, and you don’t have to sell it for 10 years in a day, you can but you don’t have to, so the ability to keep generating that cash flow and/or retain it inside the vehicle provides for an interesting dynamic in particular, if you’re not so IRR driven, as some of, you know, Kirk clients will be, they’re not paying attention to IRR as much, they’re looking for long-term appreciation. So again, I totally agree.

Jimmy: And, Gerry, let’s bring you in here. What are your thoughts on how Opportunity Zone should be utilized in general to develop wealth? And if you have any other comments on what Brad and Kirk had to say, please let us hear it.

Gerry: Sure. Well, Kirk and I have known each other for years now. And our first discussion on a group we were participating in, we had after the group, but we both got somewhat orgiastic about what you could do with the Opportunity Zone and investing and, you know, reinvesting forever, frankly, you can reinvest beyond the term of the statute, which the IRS has said ends in 2047, which is somewhat controversial, because the statute doesn’t say that. In any event, I mean, you can cause a tax event 2047 and continue on with a basis increase.

Kirk does, I do and I represent investment funds as opposed to having one and I represent families and family offices, both in helping them place their qualified capital gains in enterprises like PerkAZ which is very consistent with my thinking or their own self directed opportunity zone vehicles, which can be more or less advantageous. Kirk runs a professionally organized and administered fund, but he has all the controls of family office or a family may want to have more controls of their own. And frankly, sometime in the future, I may be going to Kirk and having selected of my self-directed family, family office, QOFs merge into his funds. And that’s a big play in this space. So, if they get tired of managing their own investments, you get merged into Kirk’s funds, you can merge there’s currently a public real estate partnership QOF you can merge into and walk away with the listed securities. There’s just so much you can do with this. It’s frankly inexcusable for any person or family of means not to be invested in QOF. And in particular, I believe, have their own self-directed Roth IRA on steroids type QOF.

Kirk: Totally agree, Gerry, and I’d say friends don’t let friends pay tax on capital gains. It is an absolute atrocity when you see the money that is being wasted unnecessarily. When you look at the depreciation deductions, the ability to accelerate the depreciation deductions with cost segregation studies and qualified improvement properties, it’s so much better than a 1031 exchange. It’s so much better than, you know, just about any other type of vehicle. And the government created an uneven playing field with the regulations, and it’s true, Gerry and I were in the regs… I knew Gerry as the regulations were coming out, and we got the final regs, we’re reading them right after they came out and we’re like, “Am I reading that right?” It really is that way.

Gerry’s point about, you know, individual Opportunity Zone Funds, that’s our specialty. And lately, we’ve even partnered up with some families who have their own Opportunity Zone Fund already, and are looking for projects and have more cash than they have projects. And we’ve created a couple of unique solutions, I think, for that situation where we’re able to allow existing coops with money access to our projects and our oversight and tap into our pipeline and our expertise in that area, while at the same time maintaining control over other projects that they self manage. We’ve created that kind of a hybrid and worked very well, you know, with that type of a structure, which I think is unique in this space.

Brad: Aren’t you guys still surprised? So everything I agree with what Gerry said. But when you think about we’re, like, five years into this thing. And we swim in this pond, so we talk to people all day kind of about this stuff. And, you know, we’re geeks when it comes to kind of what this whole thing is all about. But there’s a bunch of very smart people that own businesses, that have capital gains, that buy and sell real estate, that five years later still really don’t know what we’re talking about. I mean, and it is befuddling to me that, you know, we have loud voices and we talk to a lot of people, and yet, there’s still a lot of people out there that really don’t understand the very basics of what we’re talking about.

And, you know, Kirk, to your point, you know, friends are letting friends pay taxes. And so, really, despite the fact that Jimmy and others have done an amazing job of being online and being out and about, there are still a lot of people that still don’t know about this program. And, you know, by the time they get in, it’s almost, like, 2026 already. So, it’s really mystifying.

Kirk: I had a client… Go ahead.

Gerry: No, I feel bad for the CPA out there. There’s gotta be some CPA out there who hears about this and talks to a client and they sold their business and they triggered a massive capital gain, “Oh, you can do this Opportunity Zone Fund.” “When did it happen? “Seven months ago.”

Brad: Months ago.

Gerry: You know, like that story is gonna happen somewhere. And I feel like word to the wise, to the tax professionals, the advisors, the CPAs, the estate planning attorneys, get in front of your clients and notify them about this opportunity long before they get into the transaction. Because there’s gonna be somebody out there who’s gonna miss the boat and it’s gonna be really tragic.

Brad: Hundred percent.

Kirk: I had a client who actually decided not to invest because, “Oh, it’s not fair that I’m not getting the small step up in basis that is expired on my capital gains, that I mean to invest in the QOF.” I mean, the fact of the matter is, I’ve given up trying to convince people

Brad: Don’t give up.

Kirk: If they’re too mentally deficient to understand, once I’ve gone through it with them once or twice, right? And I did a podcast, the title of which was More Than 90% of CPAs, Transactional Attorneys, Wealth Advisors, Chief Investment Officers are Committing Malpractice By Not Thoroughly Understanding the Opportunity Zone Statute. They don’t have to know the details of how to do it, there are plenty of people out there. On the other hand, I don’t know how I could handle more work. So…

Jimmy: There’s only so much Gerry to go down.

Kirk: I understand the complexity and why, you know, something that’s new and something that’s complicated when you first look at it, that can be overwhelming to some people. When you’re dealing with a transaction that involves a significant life event, the sale of the family business, for example, you know, when you’re dealing in eight, nine-figure numbers, you can get deer in the headlights. You also have advisors who have their own self-interests. And it’s really hard for the conventional investment advisor to make money off an Opportunity Zone investment. And so, there’s not really an incentive for most investment advisors to talk to their clients about it.

Gerry: I find M&A lawyers who only have to mention it and they can generate another $20,000 or $30,000 in legal fees, still don’t mention it. Same with CPAs…

Brad: Keep that under your hat, Gerry.

Gerry: …because you’re right it’s the advisors. But today, if you had the wealth. I mean, I don’t know what to tell you guys, man, it’s…

Brad: Keep that transactional lawyer point under your hat, you don’t need to tell anybody that. That’s where, you know, others are running around and making it.

Kirk: Let me mention one other point that I think is often overlooked for the ultra-wealthy. And that is how the Opportunity Zone Fund creates almost the perfect vehicle and asset class for long-term wealth generation for a gift trust or a grantor trust, an intentionally defective grantor trust, where it’s illiquid, which is advantageous when you’re talking about assets that are going to the downline generations. It provides long-term growth, it continues to appreciate tax-free even if the parent generation passes away. And the tax benefits, the tax bill, if it comes back it will reduce the parent’s estate, but all the growth, all the appreciation, and all the rent and income are going to escape estate tax, gift tax, and generation-skipping transfer tax potentially, if set up right.

Brad: And then it passes through probate at what you invested in, not at the increased value.

Kirk: Yeah, it’s an absolute game changer when you run the numbers for a long-term super Roth-type strategy hold on an ultra-wealthy family setting it up in a grantor trust for the kids.

Gerry: Kirk, the other thing I tried to tell, like, these clients is that, well, there’s no downside to setting it up. And so it’s not very expensive to set these things up. If you don’t know what you’re gonna invest in, we can give a runway of about four or five years before they have to figure out what to do with it. And meanwhile, that 10 year clock is ticking most of that time.

Kirk: That’s right, the 10-year clock starts when the cash goes into your Opportunity Zone Fund, not when the Opportunity Zone Fund puts money into the project, or the QOCB. And that’s important to remember because if you are looking at a shorter term, there’s nothing stopping you from selling at 10 years, if that’s the right time in the marketplace, or if that’s the right time for your family, to sell one or two or whatever, always, whatever is the best interest for the client, you’ll have the flexibility to do that at the 10-year mark if that makes sense. But you won’t be on a train that’s only gonna go, you know, 10 years and then stop, you’ll have the flexibility to continue if that makes more sense, and who knows what the future brings.

Gerry: And let me mention…

Kirk: But when you reinvest cash flow into another project, you know, let’s say you start a project now, you could reinvest the cash flow from the cash-out refi in two years, and that project, you’d only own eight years, you know, and you could still sell…

Gerry: And if you set it up and you don’t know exactly what you’re going to do, the worst things happen is you’ve deferred taxation for one, two, three years out, and you can collapse it and pay your tax, if you wish.

Kirk: Yeah, I had a client whose 180-day clock was running out and they had 40 million in gain. And they were thinking about doing about 25, 30 million in the fund and putting 10 or 15 somewhere else. And I said, “Look, let’s just keep your window open.” And so they dropped off 40 into the Opportunity Zone Fund. And they just held it in cash. And for them, that bought them nine months, based on where they were in the calendar. And over those nine months, they ended up keeping it all in, in fact, they’ve reinvested the cash flow from the projects that have come back.

So, it is important to recognize how you can, you know, daisy chain the timelines your 180-day from the gain event, and all the flexibility you get with that from the March 15th if it’s a K1, to December 31st if it’s an installment sale, you know, you can daisy chain that out, and then your QOF has between six months and a day or a day less than a year before it has to drop it. And then the QOCB has another 30 months to come up with a plan for how to spend it. So, you can really stretch this out in a conservative fashion, and dial the needle really conservatively. Or if you’re more aggressive, you can dial the needle more aggressively. That’s where the flexibility. I love this program because Congress got out of the way and gave us something incredibly flexible, and that’s a massive benefit to the investors.

Jimmy: Well, gentlemen, I wanted to step one to step in here. We got a couple of questions in the chat not following the conflict of interest topic here or Brad, I guess, you mentioned you weren’t following the conflict of interest topic. But there was a question about, is there a conflict of interest for M&A attorneys and CPAs that investors should know about? And I don’t remember which one of you mentioned that.

Brad: No, so that’s what I was trying to allude to, I’m not falling what the question was relative to the fact that an M&A lawyer would raise to his client or her client, that there is a program for purposes of when you sell a company or when you merge and you have capital gain. There’s no conflict there. Relative to it’s the depends on who the client is. Is it the individual or is it the company? Maybe that’s what they’re referring to. But I’m not seeing that as a gating issue, vis-à-vis, what we’re really talking about is, does an individual, does an entity have gain that’s eligible for purposes of OZ? If they do, to Gerry’s original point, you know, he’s a little tongue in cheek, but it’s real. It’s almost valid practice relative to the amount of people that are not talking about this to their clients, so their clients can prepare or think about it, reject it if they want, but give them the facts so that they can make an informed decision. There’s not a lot of that conversation going on. That’s the…

Gerry: Let me say something about the deferral. People underestimate the value of the deferral. I have a client that is in California, had about $50 million in capital gains. And in California, the solar rooftop investing is very lucrative, but it’s not got a lot of marketplace throughput. So, we create a QOF for him. And you can get a one-for-one tax credit almost because you get the value of the project, 70% of which might be debt, right? So, whenever he sees a project he wants to invest in, he just spits out some of his capital gains, incurs a tax event, applies the tax credit to it, and he has a free income stream at a very nice number. If he finds the deal in an Opportunity Zone, he’ll leave it in the structure. If not… So, and again, you don’t have any flexibility or opportunities if you haven’t set this up.

Jimmy: Great point, Gerry.

Kirk: So, it’s all about keeping that option on the table for the client. You don’t have to advise them to do it. But so few people know about this, you need to at least get informed enough if you’re in that space, and mention it to them, put them in touch with any of us, you know, we’re all passionate about it and care about the best interest of the client. That’s the reason all of us are in this space.

Jimmy: Wanted to see if we could zoom out for a second and cover maybe a more basic, broader point. What about asset classes? Gentlemen, I’m curious of your take, which asset classes have the most potential for Opportunity Zones within the Opportunity Zone structure given OZs bend toward capital gains and appreciation?

Brad: I’ll take a shot. And I’ll twist the question a little bit, Jimmy.

Jimmy: Go for it.

Brad: I think that you’re seeing a lot of deals in the multifamily space because it’s relatively easy, it’s pretty middle of the fairway, find good rents, find good returns and decent markets, and it’s relatively easy to do. We’re seeing a bunch of deals in warehouse as well, similar, you know, topics, similar deliverable, better cap rates, for all intents and purposes, displayed Amazon’s pullback, and in cold storage. So, those three areas, warehouse storage, and multifamily are kind of the easy ones. Where I see, you know, others are, you know, to our earlier conversations, people have still not focused on, and I talked about this all the time with clients, and they hear me and they get it but they don’t really move there. It’s any cash stream that’s being delivered from a particular project has the potential to be OZ-eligible and can take off.

So, think about a property, it doesn’t have to be real estate, but think about like in a property, you’ve got all kinds of stuff going on. You’ve got painting and carpeting and HVAC maintenance and glass cleaning and landscaping, and property management and leasing. Each one of those things has the ability to derive revenue. If we can create NOI revenue over a period of time, enter into, like, a non-cancelable contract and year 9, for 10 years, then you have something to sell. If you’ve got something to sell, and you structure it the right way, that ability to create non-taxed sale proceeds is magic. And that’s people really haven’t gotten there yet. We’ve done some prop-go-up-go deals where, you know, you’re building the project, and then you’re putting an operation in, but they really haven’t started to really think through yet, which we’re running out of time here, those operating revenue streams, I think, you know, that’s where the magic is.

Gerry: We’re looking at Classic Car investment, whiskey investment.

Brad: Sure.

Gerry: And we think we can get the structure, we’re pretty far down the line on them. And so, asset classes are not just as far as tangible asset classes go, there’s not just real estate, and everybody’s missing the boat on operating companies. And we’ve got the whole process where you set up as an Opportunity Zone company, the founders can do that. And as you grow, you can switch to your opportunity to be a corporation and have 1202 investors on the venture side. So…

Kirk: Yeah, that’s why you don’t see too many tech startups in the Opportunity Zone space. And that’s my background is tech startups, you know, you’ve got the qualified small business stock provisions, section 1202 gives you 10 million per investor tax-free gain, no geographic limitations, and only a five-year hold. So that’s, you know, better, but you can actually double stack. So there’s nothing wrong with doing both.

With respect to asset classes, you know, I’ve been championing rehab over new construction for a long time. And that’s because we have qualified improvement property on the books right now, which is eligible for bonus depreciation. It has nothing to do with the Opportunity Zone tax law per se, but it works really well together. Qualified improvement property is an extra deduction you can take for the cost to improve the interior space of an existing building that is treated for commercial purposes. And we have a lot of projects that fit this bill that will be commercial in theory, because the test for whether it’s commercial or not is 20% of the rents from commercial tenants.

So, we can have like our Reno project that I’ve talked about a few times, it has, you know, a bunch of restaurants, retail, office on the ground floor, but then it’s got almost 1,000 hotel rooms in 3 towers that we’re converting to apartments and, you know, our play is about the apartments there. They’re literally classified as a commercial asset. Most of the expenses, we have a $200 million budget, about 65 million in cash, 140 million in construction debt. Most of those expenses are gonna be eligible for bonus depreciation and QIP, which last year you could take 100% of the stuff we’ve placed in service, our Starbucks is open, and things like that, we placed in service some of this space in, you know, 2022, we’re able to take 100% of those improvement costs.

And in 2023, we’re able to take 80% as a bonus depreciation plus whatever the depreciation is on the leftover 20%. So, it’s an enormous advantage, where we’re able to generate passive losses on the K1s that flow out to the investors in excess of the cash going into the deal, the capital gain going into the deal. So, especially for those investors selling a passive real estate asset, the Opportunity Zone Fund is even further juiced on steroids, it’s insane.

Gerry: Someone asked a question about where they can invest outside their states, let me just mention something that we’ve done. So, California, New York, Mississippi, I can’t remember the other ones that don’t follow the Opportunity Zone program with guided state law, we have made arrangements so that a party preparing to make a capital investment puts that investment in a pass-through partnership in Texas, let’s say, and then invest in an Opportunity Zone Fund through that entity. Now, that entity will never get the gains. And so it’ll never hit their California personal income tax. So you’ve made it work for that person. So yes, you can invest outside of your state. And if you’re in California, you better

Brad: I would just add to that, Jimmy and Gerry, that to Kirk’s point on just a reminder, most folks on the call probably know this. But as a reminder, the OZ benefit is stackable with other benefits, it’s not one or the other. And so, being able to juice a return, the OZ is awesome. But you can add to that historic tax credits, if that’s relevant, you can add to that new markets, if that’s relevant. We’ve started to play with and have worked through C-pace. So, commercialized pace, which is a whole other conversation from as a lending source that’s off-bill financing on your real estate taxes, not available in every state, but 32 states have that.

We’ve talked a bit about, you know, solar and the ability of solar or wind to use ITC, the investment tax credit that’s federal to offset some unused depreciation, to offset your current income. And then we’ve got kind of stuff that’s in the Inflation Reduction Act that again, irrespective of OZ, but it just juices OZ, to sort of say, “Look, we’re adaptively reusing, or we’re gonna use 179D, to deal with energy efficiency upgrades in a building, lights, plugs, HVAC, glass, and get five bucks a square foot just for the fact you’re going to do it anyway, you know, you’re going to build the code or a little bit better, that stuff exists, you just need to marry it with the power of the OZ, and it just, you know, supercharges it, it’s not as good as the super Roth IRA analogy but it…

Kirk: And when you put all of them together in one wrapper.

Brad: Yeah, exactly.

Kirk: Why not?

Brad: Exactly.

Kirk: Especially if you consider the ultra-wealthy are going to own real estate as part of an asset class in their overall portfolio for, you know, years and years and years, it’s a common asset class to have a significant slice allocated to. And then when you go to, okay, Opportunity Zones cover 16% or something like that, at the surface area of the country, they’re literally everywhere in areas that you would want to invest anyway. So when you distill it to its core, this is the way to own the real estate you’re going to already own anyway. And when you look at the disparity of the returns in a zone, out of the Opportunity Zone, you’re gonna own real estate anyway, I can find you a project that’s in an Opportunity Zone comparable to any project you would otherwise own. You know, that flexibility is…

Gerry: And by the way, once you tell that vehicle for 10 years, you can start flipping properties or whatnot, the only wanted property becomes irrelevant. Everybody should have their own self directed QOF. I mean, it’s just ridiculous. And some of it can go into a co-mingled fund, whatever. But it’s just… I don’t know what to say.

Jimmy: All right. Well, gentlemen, we’ve only got about 90 seconds left. So, I’m going to give each of you 30 seconds, try to stick to that. Best practices to develop wealth with Opportunity Zones, what’s, like, the number one point or step that wealthy individuals, family offices should be taking with regards to building wealth with OZs? Brad, I’ll start with you.

Brad: It’s been mentioned before on the other panels of people who we’re missing. Solid developer that’s done it before, over and over and over again, not the first rodeo, not the second, but that they know what the hell they’re doing, they’ve done it before, they can show you kind of what they’ve done and where they’ve done it. And when problems come up, which they ultimately always will, they know how to handle it. It’s not like, “Oh, my God, the sky is falling, costs are going up and interest rates are going up.” Well, no doubt, that stuff happens occasionally, you know, throughout the lifecycle of these projects. And so again, my one takeaway would be make sure you understand who you’re investing with, and make sure they’ve done this over and over and over again.

Jimmy: Gerry, how about you?

Gerry: I’ll say two things. One, Brad’s point, don’t forget your due diligence, which we do a lot of, I have my own investment platform, and I often work with an independent due diligence firm as well. And as to a captive vehicle, remember, you don’t have to just use qualified capital gains, you can loan yourself money, you can create a portfolio large enough so you can invest in many things outside of Opportunity Zones that don’t qualify as Opportunity Zones assets. Build that portfolio as big as possible for as long as possible and have the flexibility if you need to, to get out after 10 years or to get out with some but don’t just limit yourself to your capital gains.

Jimmy: And Kirk, we’ll leave you with the final word.

Kirk: Two points, one, friends don’t allow friends to pay tax on capital gains, it is atrocious if you have a capital gain event and you don’t seriously take a look at this. Two, the Opportunity Zone regulations are complicated, these are treacherous waters. And there are ways that people can slip up and the consequences can be draconian. So, you don’t want to sail through these waters without an experienced guide. So, those are my takeaways, find somebody who really knows this space and is passionate about the space that can help you navigate through that. I love talking about this, I can’t stop talking about it, Gerry’s the same way, Bob’s you know, just call one of us and pick our brains, we’re happy to chat. We’re all in that mindset of we want to help people avoid the capital gain. And even if you don’t invest with us, I wanna help people and that’s why I’m in the space. It just makes me sad to see dollars wasted when there’s so much benefit to be had through the Opportunity Zone Fund.

Brad: Absolutely.

Jimmy: Well, terrific insights from all three of you today. Brad Molotsky, Gerry Reihsen, and Kirk Walton. Thank you so much for participating today. Really appreciate your insights. This has been an incredible panel. Thank you so much.

Gerry: Thank you.

Kirk: Thanks, Jimmy.

Brad: Thanks, Jimmy. Thanks, guys.