Manufactured Housing & The Affordability Crisis, With Daniel Landy

Fannie Mae estimates that the nation is facing an affordable housing shortage of close to 4 million units. Can manufactured housing help solve this societal problem?

Daniel Landy, executive vice president at UMH Properties, joins the show to discuss the role of manufactured housing in the private equity real estate marketplace and how the Opportunity Zones policy is catalyzing more of this product in some of the areas that need housing the most.

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Episode Highlights

  • Background on UMH Properties as one of the oldest REITs in existence.
  • The magnitude and scale of the nation’s housing affordability crisis, and why manufactured housing could be part of the solution.
  • What manufactured housing communities are, and the product type’s role in the broader private equity real estate marketplace.
  • How Opportunity Zones intersect with manufactured housing communities, and examples of completed projects in Orangeburg, SC and Albany, GA.
  • An idea to tweak the Opportunity Zones law to incentivize the creation of additional affordable housing across the nation.

Guest: Daniel Landy, UMH Properties

Daniel Landy on the Opportunity Zones Podcast

About The Opportunity Zones Podcast

Hosted by OpportunityDb.com founder Jimmy Atkinson, The Opportunity Zones Podcast features guest interviews from fund managers, advisors, policymakers, tax professionals, and other foremost experts in opportunity zones.

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Show Transcript

Jimmy: Welcome to the “Opportunity Zones Podcast.” I’m Jimmy Atkinson. How can manufactured housing help solve the nation’s housing affordability crisis? Joining me on the show today to discuss this topic and more is Daniel Landy, president of the UMH OZ Fund and executive vice president of UMH Properties. And Daniel joins us today from Freehold, New Jersey. Daniel, great to meet you. Happy to have you on the show. Welcome.

Daniel: Thank you. Very happy to be here. I’ve been a fan of your podcast, so it’s great to be here.

Jimmy: All right. Thank you. Well, let’s dive in, Daniel. I’m guessing that a lot of our audience of high-net-worth investors and advisors already have some familiarity with UMH Properties, considering that you are one of the oldest REITs in existence. But for any who may not be familiar, can you give us a brief introduction to UMH Properties? What do you do exactly, and what is your role there?

Daniel: Absolutely, yeah. And UMH Properties, we were founded in 1968, so one of the oldest REITs. We are a publicly traded REIT focused on manufactured housing communities. So, these are residential areas that are zoned to allow HUD Code homes, which are homes built in a factory, highly efficient, highly affordable, and they have environmental benefits because of the less waste of building in factories. So, we have land where we put these manufactured homes on, we sell these homes, we rent these homes. A big part of our model versus others has been putting these homes for rent, which has really helped us fill occupancy fast, and we believe is a good model.

So, yeah, we were founded in 1968 by my grandfather, Eugene Landy, who…he was a forefather in the REIT world. He founded two publicly-traded REITs, UMH and Monmouth REIT, which was an industrial warehouse REIT. FedEx had 9% of their warehouses that Monmouth REIT used to manage and lease to them. So, yeah, he’s been in the REIT world for a while. He’s been really good at picking, you know, the different real estate sectors to invest in. Industrial and manufactured housing have been great performing sectors. So, yeah, UMH Properties, they have 25,000 home sites across 12 different states, we have 9,000 rentals that we own and manage, and we have an occupancy of 85%. So, that’s UMH Properties.

I’m Daniel Landy. I am, as you said, the president of the UMH Opportunity Zone Fund and executive vice president of UMH. So, I’ve been really helping, you know, shepherd this Opportunity Zone Fund that we just closed on, which, you know, we’ll talk about more on this podcast, and I’m excited about. But yeah, UMH, we’re one of the biggest operators of manufactured housing communities, which we think is the real way to solve the affordable housing crisis.

Jimmy: Yeah, that’s great. I do wanna dive into your Opportunity Zone Fund, that is now closed, and talk about your opportunity zone strategy and all things opportunity zones with you, Daniel, in a few minutes. But first, just to zoom out and get that broader picture, the broader concept that you guys are trying to tackle is the affordability crisis in this nation in terms of housing or lack thereof. We’ve covered this on and off, on this podcast over the last few years, but I think it’s been a while since we’ve really zeroed in on this. So, Daniel, maybe before we talk about the solution to the problem, can you characterize the problem? What is the nation’s housing affordability crisis exactly, and how do you view it?

Daniel: Yeah. So, I think a lot of people in the U.S. are definitely familiar that we have an affordable housing crisis. The supply of affordable homes is very low. The shortage keeps getting bigger. Fannie Mae has around a housing shortage of 4 million homes. Freddie Mac says in the 1970s, there used to be 400,000 entry homes built a year. In the 2010s, it got down to less than 100,000. And just recently, in 2020, it was around, you know, 65,000. So, entry-level home building has been lacking for quite a while. Most developers are not building affordable housing. So, you know…

Jimmy: And sorry to interrupt. That’s incredible. First of all, just the actual number volume decreased from 400,000 down to, what’d you say, 65,000. But then what further compounds that is the growth in population in this country too, right? The population has doubled or tripled in size over that time period. I mean, that even paints a starker picture than just a drop from 400 to 65. The problems compounded two or threefold beyond that, I would imagine.

Daniel: Absolutely. Yeah. No, the population’s kept growing and affordability has been shrinking. So, the crisis just keeps getting, you know, worse, unfortunately. But hopefully, you know, with programs like Opportunity Zone Funds and with manufactured housing, we can do more to address this issue. But, you know, UMH itself, we usually add 800 rental homes a year. So, these rental homes, they’re typically 3-bed, 2-bath, 1000 to 1500 square feet, and we rent them from $950 to $1300 a month. So, it’s incredibly affordable for all of that space. And we wanna do as much as possible to increase that affordable housing supply. So, you know, we’re always looking for partnerships and interesting ways to add that housing supply. So, yeah, manufactured housing, we think, you know, is a really great solution and tool to solving the affordable housing crisis because manufactured homes to build, they cost half as much as a traditional site-built home.

The Manufactured Housing Institute has it that the average manufactured home costs around $72 per square foot to build, whereas a site-built home is $144, and that’s not including the land. McKinsey also says that construction of these manufactured homes is 50% faster than a site-built home. So, you know, we think manufactured homes, they’re more affordable and much faster. So, to solve that big shortage of affordable housing, we think there needs to be an increase of supply of home sites, and UMH itself and others in the industry can definitely, you know, make more homes, put more homes on these sites, and help the U.S. increase its supply of affordable housing.

Jimmy: Yeah, that’s great. Tell me more about manufactured housing. Maybe we can take a look into or…not an actual look, but a virtual look into or description of how you actually do manufacture these housing units. How big are they? Where do they get placed? Where are the manufacturing facilities? What types of materials do you use? Tell me everything you can about what’s common in the industry and what you do at UMH in particular.

Daniel: Yeah. So, UMH in particular, we buy communities that are zoned MH with high vacancies. So, there’s a lot of home sites with no homes on them. We partner with really big, manufactured home builders. It’s typically called the three big Cs, Clayton, Champion, and Cavco. Two of them are publicly traded companies, and Clayton is owned by Warren Buffet. So, he himself is very excited about the space. But yeah, we partner with them. They have factories all over the country. We generally buy from the factory closest to our community. But yeah, the manufacturers right now, you know…during COVID, they had a big backlog, but now the backlog is starting to shrink and they’re particularly seeing demand from these manufactured home community owners such as us.

So, you know, we think there’s a lot more they can do and that we can do through, you know, increasing the number of sites. We do expansions at our communities, we look for land that’s zoned MH to completely developed new communities. So, those are the things that can be done and that’s how we generally work with these factories. So, basically, when we acquire stuff, we’re looking at, you know, the potential vacant sites. We’re working with big manufacturers, the nearby factories, buying those homes, delivering them to the site. And other operators prefer selling the homes, which, you know, we like to sell homes too, but we prefer filling occupancy faster and we like responding to, you know, where the demand is. And we see a lot more demand for rental housing. We’ve been happy to put in more rental homes. Like I said, we do 800 rental homes a year. We usually sell 100 homes a year. So, you know, we solve a lot more of the affordable housing crisis with rental homes in particular. So, that’s something UMH does unique.

Jimmy: Good. Well, I wanna talk more about that strategy, what else makes you unique, a little bit later in the conversation. But back to the affordability crisis…and you’ve got a solution in terms of manufactured housing, is that going far enough though, or is part of the problem policy-based? And I know we’ve got some policy-based solutions such as OZs that are helping, certainly, but are there other policies that are, kind of, pulling back on the efforts or are hindering those efforts? What are your thoughts there?

Daniel: Yeah. I think a lot of the battles are definitely local. A lot of “Not in my backyard,” and a lot of land… There should be more land that’s probably zoned for MH. You know, UMH itself has also…we’ve had property that we’ve bought before that is zoned MH and we’ve had difficulty sometimes with the town. So, I think a lot of it is addressing these, you know, local governments and marketing how high quality these communities can be. We’ve done a lot of drone videos. We have a lot on our YouTube channel, UMH Properties, showing these very high-quality new manufactured home communities. Sometimes, you know, the image is of rundown trailer parks, and that’s not the case with what the modern manufactured home is, the manufactured home community.

And when we show people, you know, these drone videos, they see that, they believe that. And even when we’ve gone into towns, you know, and first had opposition, a lot of times, people are so much happier with us being the new owner of, you know, the community, putting in these new homes, really improving the area, and having housing for a lot of the people that a community needs. You know, we actually have a community that we own that’s in an opportunity zone that wasn’t in the Opportunity Zone Fund. You know, I think we acquired it in 2020. We’ve added rental homes and now it’s being occupied by a lot of military people from the army base there.

Same with another community we have in an opportunity zone in Sebring, Florida. The hospital desperately needed housing for its nurses, and we are really occupying the community heavily with nurses and other medical staff. So, you know, we think that these local governments should really see the huge benefit that high-quality manufactured housing can have for their communities and they should really be welcoming and doing initiatives like opportunity zones to increase investment, especially in affordable housing.

Jimmy: I agree with you 100%. A lot of it is just about changing those preconceived notions of what affordable housing is, what it looks like, what manufactured housing is and looks like. But it sounds like you guys over there at UMH are doing a pretty good job educating these local governments and local leaders in these different localities and challenging why they may oppose such projects. I think that’s great. So, yeah, a little bit of opposition oftentimes from NIMBYs or from local governments, you know, that’s a policy hindrance, I suppose, or over-regulatory hindrance. But along comes this new federal policy, Opportunity Zones, that help unlock some of the capital that can drive investments in some of these underinvested locations.

So, let’s talk OZs now for a few minutes if we can, Daniel. First of all, when did you at UMH learn about opportunity zones, and then what drew you to opportunity zones? Why did you ultimately decide to set up an Opportunity Zone Fund through UMH Properties?

Daniel: Yeah. It’s hard to give a first date of when I heard about Opportunity Zones, to be honest, but I remember hearing about it, you know, maybe a couple of months or a year after, you know, the whole thing came out and reading about it, and thinking that UMH might be able to do something here. We were exploring and thinking about it, but it didn’t really materialize to do something until, you know, I was talking about my grandfather, Eugene Landy, he founded Monmouth REIT. They were sold in February of 2022. It was a $4 billion acquisition from ILPT, where UMH, we actually owned some of Monmouth REIT, and we have a securities portfolio, so we were gonna realize a capital gain.

We realized we could defer that gain for our shareholders. So, that seemed like a potential benefit there. And then, you know, at the same time that that happened… Like I said, we’re looking to do as much for the affordable housing crisis. We’re looking to add as much affordable housing supply as possible. But as a public company, there’s only so much we can do in a year because it’s very capital-intensive, can hurt our earnings. So, we’ve explored more with partnerships. We have a partnership with Nuveen. They’re helping us build new communities in Florida right now, but they may help us build other new communities. So, we were looking for these long-term patient capital partners, and Opportunity Zone Funds, by their nature, seemed perfect for that. You know, the 10-year is the big benefit. So, that seemed ideal.

Also, when we looked at our portfolio, we saw we did have some communities where we did this value-add approach, we did the substantial improvements, that were in opportunity zones. And, you know, unfortunately, those won’t see those benefits. But we see communities in opportunity zones and we realized we could probably do more if we, you know, participated in Opportunity Zone Funds. So, with the Monmouth sale, with looking for more long-term patient capitals, we thought it would be a great strategy to launch an Opportunity Zone Fund. And also we were seeing, you know, different properties for sale in opportunity zones. So, we felt confident we could launch a fund.

So, yeah, just to, you know, go through the different benefits, I was talking about, the Monmouth gain, we wanted to defer that. We wanted long-term patient capital. We wanted to have a way where these deals are more accretive upfront for UMH shareholders with management fees, you know, we’re receiving more income. And UMH…in these funds too, what’s nice is UMH is the likely buyer at the end of 10 years. We have the right of first offer. We’ll offer a price that multiple appraisers will say is fair value of the community at the end of 10 years. So, it’s nice, you know, for the OZ investor, they have a very likely buyer at the end of 10 years. So, you know, we thought that was a good structure as well. And we love trying to work with government officials who are creating these types of policies. So, you know, we always wanna use whatever the new policy is from the government to try to increase investment in underinvested areas and increase affordable housing.

You know, another thing that we’ve done, last year, there was a home show in Washington, D.C. and, you know, the Biden administration really announced that manufactured housing is a really important solution to the affordable housing crisis. So, we got to showcase our homes there, we got to meet government officials, and we love, you know, helping them brag about the things they do to increase affordable housing. So, it was a great tool to also work with government. So, those are really the reasons we got interested in launching an Opportunity Zone Fund, and we thought it was a big win for UMH shareholders.

We think it’s a win, you know, for our existing OZ investors because, you know, they feel confident, they have a likely buyer at the end of 10 years. It’s a very safe investment. Affordable housing is more recession-proof than, you know, other forms of housing or rental housing. And they have a really great experience management team since, you know, 1968. They got to leverage all of UMH’s expertise in the field. So, yeah, we felt it was a really good solution for us and, you know, we’re happy we launched, you know, this first fund, now it’s closed, but we’re happy to brag about that fund and, you know, talk about what we’ve done there.

Jimmy: Yeah, that’s great. It sounds like the Opportunity Zone program was almost tailor-made for you guys in some ways. It all worked out fairly well for your investors and for your mission of tackling the nation’s housing affordability crisis with your manufactured housing units. So, I understand you’re somewhat restricted about talking about any open funds or plans for new funds, but you can talk about that first fund you were just alluding to, that first UMH OZ Fund, which is now closed. So, what can you tell us about that fund? In particular, what makes it unique? How much equity did you raise? Where are the properties located? Tell us everything you can about it, if you can unpack that for us.

Daniel: Yeah. There’s a bunch that’s unique about our fund. First off, I don’t think there’s a lot of OZ funds that are manufactured home communities. So, that, in itself, I think is unique and interesting. Like I already said, you have a management team that’s a public company from, you know, 1968, a very established team. What’s unique is I think, you know, I haven’t seen a lot of OZ Funds necessarily have a likely buyer at the end of 10 years, so that’s interesting. And then we’re particularly focused on the Southeast. UMH has wanted to expand more on the Southeast. We think there’s a big demographic movement there. We think a lot of manufacturing is coming back to the U.S. A lot of, you know, announced plants have been in the Southeast for, you know, new EV battery plants or EV car factories or other types of factories. So, we think it’s a very exciting area.

The fund has two manufactured home communities. One is a value-add community, and that’s usually what UMH does, which is acquire communities with high vacancy. This community is in Orangeburg, South Carolina, and we find it very exciting from all the employers who announced expansions there, which I’ll get into. But that one has 181 home sites. It was less than 40% occupied. So, you know, most of the substantial improvement we’ll be doing is adding more than 100 rental homes there. You know, we’ll do some capital improvements that are necessary such as, you know, repaving the roads, adding amenities like a playground. So, we’ll be doing that, but most of the substantial improvement comes from adding the rental homes.

You know, we have existing staff in that area, in one of our communities that is only an hour away in Sumter, South Carolina, Iris Winds, which is a community also in an opportunity zone, but sadly before the fund. And we’ve done very well there. We’re pretty much fully occupied there. We’ve seen great demand. So, in Orangeburg, we feel we can do the same thing. We’re gonna leverage our existing staff. And just to talk about the amount of new employers in that area. So, I should also say Orangeburg, South Carolina, it’s in between Charleston, South Carolina, and Columbia. So, you know, right smack in the middle of there. You know, it’s a really good transportation hub. And, you know, in Orangeburg, there’s been announcements of more than $200 million in new investment in that area and more than 700 new jobs. So, we think it’s a really exciting area.

The community we acquired, you know, the past owner just didn’t have the capital to add these homes, make the necessary improvements. So, we will be doing that. You know, our staff is very excited. They’re already seeing a lot of demand, a lot of people walking into the community wanting to rent our new homes. So, it’s really exciting there. And, you know, we bought that property for around $5 million. So, it’s like $28,000 a site. We’ve seen other communities when they’re more highly occupied that we acquire can go, you know, from $60,000 to $80,000 a site. Obviously, it depends on the market, but that’s the kind of potential when this thing is fully occupied and much higher quality.

And the second community is a complete new development, and that’s in Albany, Georgia. We’re gonna call that community Mighty Oak. It’s 118 sites. You know, we found this property…it’s very rare to find land zoned MH and also have a developer in place to build it. So, we were really excited about that. So, it’s gonna be a brand new community. We bought those 118 sites for around $4 million. It’s around $31,000 a site. And Albany, it definitely doesn’t have the best, you know, current demographics in terms of population growth and everything, but where our property is located is so well in the city. It’s right next to Highway 133, which already has major employers there surrounding us, Proctor and Gamble, the Marine Corps Logistics Space, Pfizer, and even more. But that highway, 133, that we’re on is gonna be expanded into a 4-lane highway coming in 2023.

So, you know, we think the area’s gonna see much more growth. The area desperately…you can drive around there, needs new quality, affordable housing supply. You know, that new community price that I said, we bought it for $31,000 a site, it’s incredibly difficult anywhere to develop a community for $31,000 a site. Typically, we can see it go anywhere from, you know, $80,000 to $100,000 a site is usual. So, it’s a really good starting price for a completely new community. So now we’ll just be…you know, we’re gonna be building an office, adding the rental homes, adding an amenity and, you know, that will be our substantial improvement there. So, both areas, we’re really excited about.

Jimmy: No, that’s great. So, clearly, you like the Southeast, right? You like Georgia and South Carolina for those two properties in particular. Any other markets in the Southeast you like or maybe characteristics of other markets you like in the Southeast or beyond, anywhere else in the nation? Where else are you guys looking exactly?

Daniel: UMH itself, I will say we’re more excited about the Southeast, but we’re also always looking at acquisitions that come up. You know, at manufactured housing communities, it’s so rare to find land that’s zoned like that, that it’s not necessarily that we can…you know, that we’re strictly, we’re gonna be this market. It’s sometimes, you know, what deal comes up. I think that we’re pretty much happy with anywhere besides California, I’ll say. The operating environment legally there is a little difficult. But yeah, we’re very excited about the Southeast. We’ve done more stuff in Florida lately. We’re very excited about Florida. Traditionally, we’re big in the Midwest, in Ohio, Pennsylvania, Indiana. And similar thing to what we were saying about the South, how, you know, more factories, more manufacturing is gonna be in the South, there’s been more in the Midwest as well.

You know, we’re very much in the Marcellus and Utica Shale region there, so as energy prices have gone up, that’s been good for us. But, yeah, no, the Southeast is very exciting. We’re big in Tennessee, big in Nashville and Memphis. Memphis, we have the first all-rental community. Memphis Blues. I encourage people to check out our drone videos of Memphis Blues because it’s very high-quality housing. You can’t tell it’s just a rental housing community. And that’s what we plan on doing with, you know, the OZ Fund communities. We’re just gonna be adding rental homes. So, Mighty Oak is gonna be an all-rental community, and you can get pretty much an exact feel of what we’re gonna do by looking at Memphis Blues. So, yeah, excited about the Southeast. We’re excited about other opportunities if they might make sense. But we’re definitely looking heavier in the Southeast, I would say.

Jimmy: No, that makes perfect sense. It’s great demographic trends or tailwinds in the Southeast in particular, for sure. Let’s change subjects here briefly for a moment, get back to opportunity zone policy and reform legislation. So, and I know for my listeners and viewers out there, I’ve covered reform legislation quite a bit over the last, I guess, eight or nine months or so since legislation was first introduced last April. But Daniel, what do you think about OZ reform overall and improvements? And you’ve got a way to improve it that goes beyond the reform legislation that was introduced last April that would possibly bring in additional capital. You’re not the first to talk about it, but not the first to have this idea, but tell us a little bit more about how you think it can be improved from a capital-raising standpoint.

Daniel: Yeah. UMH, you know, we think there’s so much more that can be done in affordable housing. And we think that the OZ Fund law of nature, it was a brilliant move by, you know, Senator Scott and Booker. I think, you know, we’ve seen in these areas that we’re investing in a lot more investment, as I said, and I think that’s partially because of things like this. But sadly, you know, I think it’s a little limited in impact by requiring that 10-year benefit to only be from capital gains money. And specifically, you only have 180 days too. As we’ve seen in the last year, I think that there were much less capital gains with a lot of asset values going down, which is unfortunate for these areas that need affordable housing and investment.

We think, you know, that that OZ Fund 10-year benefit should be opened up to all pools of capital when it’s strictly…our proposed amendment is if it’s strictly manufactured housing communities because that makes it easier because manufactured housing, by its nature, is affordable housing. If it gets to the heart of the issue, which is that this capital should just be used for affordable housing, and then that can get the 10-year benefit, we think there would be much more capital provided to building affordable housing. And it would really help solve the nation’s affordable housing crisis, and it would open it up to a lot more investors.

I think a lot of the big complaints have been that, you know, OZ Funds are just for very wealthy people, where this 10-year benefit, with any capital source, it wouldn’t be just restricted to the wealthy. And if you’re requiring it be about affordable housing or manufactured housing, you’re ensuring that the uses are for quality, affordable housing. And for these areas that want more employers, that’s one of the big issues when these employers come to these areas is, “How are we gonna house our employees?” So, we think it’s…you know, affordable housing in opportunity zone areas really spur extra investment and make the community better and more valuable. And we really think the government should open it up to all sources of capital.

Jimmy: Absolutely. I would love to see that. I know Shay Hawkins and I talked about this on an episode that we did last spring. That was also one of his ideas for going beyond the reform legislation that’s, kind of, bouncing around right now. I think it’s probably about to be reintroduced into this session of Congress, hopefully within the next few weeks here. Possibly by the time this episode airs, it’ll be on its way to being reintroduced. But this goes beyond that in terms of, “Hey, why not have all forms of capital be eligible for that 10-year benefit?” If it’s not a capital gain, it can’t be eligible for the deferral or the potential reduction in basis, but why not have it eligible for that 10-year benefit of the exclusion of capital gains on the back end of an opportunity zone investment?

I think that seems like a no-brainer to me, at least, to allow that for all the reasons you listed. It would open it up for more investors, more equity would flow into these deals, more affordable housing would get accomplished in the long run. And that would certainly adhere to the spirit of the law to improve the economies in many of our nation’s downtrodden and overlooked communities, Daniel. So, yeah, I’m with you on that one. I think that would be a really easy one. It’s probably one of the questions I get most often is, “Hey, can I do a non-capital gains investment and get the tax benefits?” And unfortunately, at this point in time, no, is the answer to that one. But hopefully, that gets changed at some point down the road here.

Well, Daniel, I know we’re, kind of, running short on time here. I wanted to just ask you a couple more questions before I cut you loose. And I guess I wanted to zoom out even beyond opportunity zones, beyond manufactured housing industry, but talk about real estate industry in general, the private equity real estate landscape. UMH, clearly a leader in the manufactured homes industry. You guys have a lot of insights into what is going on in the broader private equity real estate market. But that said, what do you see as some of the most powerful trends that you think may play out over the next 12 or 18 months or maybe years beyond that? Any predictions across the private equity real estate landscape?

Daniel: Yeah. I think, you know, the most interesting trend right now…I think a lot of people have seen the headlines that, you know, certain private real estate funds have had more people trying to get money out of the funds than coming in, and that’s limited, you know, the amount, that they are distributing. So, I think what that will mean…I mean, it’ll be definitely very interesting, but I think what it’ll mean is that a lot more deals are gonna be present in 2023. A lot more people trying to liquidate certain properties, which is really exciting for, you know, people who have the capital or can raise capital to opportunistically acquire some of these assets. So, I think it’s a really interesting time, you know, given that piece of news, you know, higher interest rates. So, I think you’ll see a lot more potentially attractive deals coming in the future.

Jimmy: Are you hinting at the possibility that UMH could be a big buyer if opportunities come your way here in 2023?

Daniel: You know, it’s certainly a potential. We’re definitely in the position to be looking at these deals. It’s a question I think, right now, like I said, I think it’s gonna be set up for that, but right now, I think the deals we’re seeing haven’t necessarily come down in price yet. I’m just saying that I think that it’s an interesting trend that could happen. So, I think UMH is well positioned for it and that will be exciting, but I can’t say that it’s definitely happening right now.

Jimmy: Yeah. I guess I was asking you to look into your crystal ball there. So, it’s always challenging to predict the future.

Daniel: I think it could happen. Yes.

Jimmy: I get that.

Daniel: I think, you know, mid to end of 2023 might be, you know, very exciting.

Jimmy: Yeah, it could be a good buying opportunity for a lot with who are in the position to capitalize on it. I kinda share your thoughts there. Something’s going to reprice the market here and there’s gonna be some sellers, and I think we’ll see some improved, or increased, I should say, transaction volume at some point this year. I think there’s some pent-up pressure in the marketplace for sure. Well, hey, Daniel, really wanna thank you for joining us today and sharing your insights on manufactured homes and the real estate industry, and opportunity zones. Before I let you go, where can our audience of high-net-worth investors and advisors go to learn more about you and UMH Properties?

Daniel: Absolutely. Yeah, you can always contact me, [email protected], and you can always go to umh.reit to see our investor page. You can go on UMH Properties’ YouTube channel to really see the drone videos, our stories of what UMH has done in certain areas. Yeah. I’m happy to have anyone reach out with questions. So, Jimmy, I really appreciate you for having me on, and it was a pleasure.

Jimmy: Perfect. Well, thanks so much, Daniel. And final reminder for our listeners and viewers out there, as always, we will have show notes available for today’s episode at opportunitydb.com/podcast. And there, we will have links to all of the resources that Daniel and I discussed on today’s show, and I’ll make sure we link to Daniel’s email address and the UMH YouTube channel this time as well. And please be sure to subscribe to us on YouTube or your favorite podcast listening platform to always get the latest episodes. Daniel, it’s been a pleasure. Thanks again.

Daniel: Thank you.

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