OZ Investing In Times Of Rising Rates And Capital Scarcity, With Caliber Funds

In this webinar, Chris Loeffler discusses the unique environment for OZ funds at present and also discusses the pipeline for Caliber’s second OZ fund.

Interested In Learning More About This Opportunity?

You can visit the Official OpportunityDb Partner Page for the Caliber Tax Advantaged Opportunity Zone Fund II to:

  • View beautiful high-resolution images.
  • Learn key details about fund and related projects.
  • Request more information from the fund sponsor.

Webinar Highlights

  • An overview of Caliber as a fund sponsor, and the importance of the fund manager selection decision;
  • Caliber’s focus on building generational wealth for its investors;
  • Why the focus on middle markets is an important piece of the Caliber strategy;
  • How Caliber targets projects with a lower likelihood of competition and a higher likelihood of success;
  • Similarities and differences between ground-up construction and venture capital investments;
  • How Caliber sees the market today and how it is positioning itself in an era of rising interest rates and capital scarcity;
  • The potential for China to disrupt global markets over the next few years;
  • How this market differs from 2008, and what that means for investors;
  • Caliber’s risk management strategies, including target loan-to-value ratio;
  • Three important criteria of a quality Opportunity Zone sponsor;
  • Review of the assets in Caliber’s first OZ fund;
  • Changes to Caliber’s strategy for Fund 2;
  • Live Q&A with webinar attendees.

Industry Spotlight: Caliber Funds

Caliber Funds is the private equity arm of Caliber The Wealth Development Company, an Arizona-based corporation that services the capital of individual investors and disburses them into private real estate assets across the Southwest. Caliber offers a diversified portfolio of commercial real estate properties, real estate-related equity investments and other real estate-related assets, each of which Caliber Funds believes are compelling from a risk-return perspective.

Learn More About Caliber Funds

Webinar Transcript

Jimmy: And presenting from Caliber will be Chris Loeffler. Chris, the stage is yours for the next half hour. Take it away.

Chris: Sounds great. Thank you, Jimmy. Good to see you and everyone on the Pitch Day. It seems like we have a great crowd today, so that’s good. Hopefully, we can all start focusing on our portfolios now that this election is almost finally over. So, I’m sure that everybody’s looking forward to moving forward at this point in time. So, you know, I just wanted to, obviously, put out the big disclaimer and then, you know, move into the presentation. I structured this to be three parts. So, the first is really about Caliber as a sponsor of funds.

Opportunity Zone funds is not the only thing that we do, and I thought that, you know, that would be one of the most relevant pieces for all of you to understand, because when you’re investing, whether it’s in an Opportunity Zone strategy, or a core asset fund, or a real estate development fund, or a private lending fund, or the different types of funds that are out there, ultimately, you are hiring us as your owner for hire and you’re relying on us to make good decisions about what types of projects we buy, when to sell, how to manage, how to take on different challenges, and things like that. So, we’ll spend the first part talking about Caliber. I’ll touch on, as Jimmy mentioned, a little bit about our first fund that was recently closed and how that’s performed so far, what types of assets we’ve bought, and then I’ll step into Fund II quickly at the end here to show you where we’re going next.

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So, starting with Caliber, we are here to build generational wealth. The vision for the company is pretty simple. That is our purpose as a business. We’re doing it for you, our investors, the communities that we invest into, and the team that’s involved in actually making the magic happen here at Caliber. We think aligning all those three entities together is very important. And the why behind that, at the end of the day for our business, is that we believe that we can create a better world by building wealth for good people. We believe that good people do great things with their wealth. I’m sure all of you probably do. And the more that we can empower you to go out there and create a better world, the more that we, you know, get the motivation to get out of bed every day. As a business, Caliber has a track record of growth.

We’ve been a growing alternative asset manager, which basically means we create different types of investment strategies, deploy those strategies into real estate and private lending. And then, we’re differentiated, in some ways, similar to Grove. I think they’re a great group as well, and the fact that we actually do the work. So, we have a vertically integrated business model that includes real estate development, acquisitions, financing, management, instruction management, all the way through. And while we don’t do every part and piece of every deal, we have the expertise internally to take over if anything goes wrong with one of our partners that we’re working with.

Caliber is specifically focused on middle-market assets, geographies, and investors. And basically, what that does for us and for you as an investor in any of our funds or strategies is that you know that you’re gonna be coming into, from a geographical standpoint, growing markets, population growth, job growth, and places that maybe aren’t always on the radar of every institution, but are great places to access and great places to sort of be in front of the next round of population growth that’s coming. On the asset side, it means that we’re gonna be investing in projects that are too hard to execute, and typically, too large for your typical real estate developer or smaller investor, and they’re typically, in some cases, too complex to execute on, or they need to be aggregated together to fit within the institutional bucket. So, that means that we get to invest in assets that have a lower likelihood of competition and a higher likelihood of success of us being able to buy at a great price, build value into those assets, and eventually sell for a great return.

And our investors, we specifically work with is high-net-worth, ultra-high-net-worth. Typically, a lot of investment advisors who allocate or manage those types of clients, wealth, family offices, smaller institutions like smaller banks and things like that, folks who are looking for access to alternative investments and are having a hard time finding it. Like I mentioned to you before, you know, our strategy around markets is pretty simple, population growth and job growth, we think one leads to the other. And we’ve been focused pretty heavily on the greater Southwest and parts of the Mountain West for the last 14 years.

On the vertically integrated business model, just a quick few points to think about, what you’re getting when you invest with Caliber is you’re getting the ability to come in at an early stage into any type of real estate investment. It’s sort of like venture investing where you’re coming in at the early stage of a new business. That’s where all the upside is. That’s where all the value creation is. Unlike venture investing, you don’t have the same risk of loss of your capital because we’re doing hard asset investing, we’re buying real estate, but we’re doing all the heavy lifting and the hard work to buy right, build value at multiple stages, own that asset for cash flow, and eventually sell it for a profit.

That vertical integration gives us the control to make sure that when something does go wrong with that investment strategy, which almost always does in real estate, there’s always different little twists and turns in the process. We have the ability to move with the market or move with those twists and turns and address the issues and continue to move the projects forward. So, what you won’t find any Caliber investor saying is, “They had a stopping point and they just, you know, gave up on the project and just tried to sell it off for whatever they could get.” That doesn’t happen in our business.

I’m gonna spend a little bit of time here because I think the most important thing you need to know at this very moment in time about us as an investment company and as a strategy is, how do we see the market today and how are we moving with the market and where we think it’s gonna go, and how are we positioning you as an investor to take advantage of what we think is gonna be a highly disrupted market? So, if you look at the screen, you’ve got three things that were unknown, and those are in the dark gold boxes. You’ve got Rising Interest Rates, you’ve got Capital Scarcity, and you’ve got the new entrance of Distressed Assets back into the market. Everybody understands rising interest rates. I’m not gonna go into that in a lot of detail.

On the capital scarcity side, what you may not know is that in the last month, and even sometimes less, you’ve seen massive pullback of investor, specifically lender dollars coming into the market. And it’s getting harder and harder to get anyone’s deal done, getting construction financing done, getting permanent financing done. And that pullback creates a scarcity of capital where there was a big run-up of real estate investing. The new interest rates came through, the market crash came through, this election cycle has come through, and, all of a sudden, in six months, roughly, you’ve gotten to a point where the market has turned over and changed completely.

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That’s creating the next box there, which is the Distressed Assets box. So, we are starting to see distressed deals, we’re starting to see broken construction projects, we’re starting to get those kind of panic phone calls and texts that are coming through. And the two boxes in the center that I wanna talk to you about are these lightly colored boxes. This is our view, Caliber’s view, on what’s gonna happen next. And that is the massive disruption that’s happening in China, which is going through their version of a 2008 financial crisis, is going to cause reverberations around the world. Specifically, because they are the largest supplier of building materials, and potentially, of general contracting labor in the world. And their domestic market for real estate has evaporated. So, what was 25% to 33% of their entire economy, their GDP, the activity has basically stopped across the board.

And all of those Chinese companies that manufacture drywall, they manufacture other types of building materials, are gonna have to find a way, if they don’t wanna shut down their business, to start selling in the international markets. That’s gonna flood the markets, in our view, with cheaper building materials. And roughly, three to six months from now, we’re expecting to see a big drop in what it costs to build something. If you pair that with the fact that we’re in a recession now and a recession that will likely continue to deepen, you’re gonna start to see labor pricing come down.

So, that resets the cost of what it costs to build something. It also resets what a piece of real estate is worth. So, we see an incredible opportunity for you as Opportunity Zone investors to take wins from the last economy, invest it into our strategy and our Opportunity Zone fund, we’ll take the next 6 to 12-month window and let the disruption flow through the market and start buying up these assets and these broken projects on the cheap. So, that’s exactly what we’re gonna do with your money if you choose to invest with us. And Caliber has a track record of doing that because in late 2008, we got started and we spent the first 5 years of our business buying distressed properties.

What does that translate to in terms of a track record? Average whole period of about 5 years, 84% total ROI, 17.7% delivered IRR, and a 1.84 deal multiple, meaning if you put in 100 grand, you got 184 back. That’s essentially our track record that’s been delivered on assets. And I just wanted to highlight a few of the assets within that track record. Everything that you see there with a little cross on it was a distressed asset from a cycle where you’re getting, in my mind, eye-popping returns because you’re buying these projects in such a disrupted manner that you’re able to come in at a cheap price and that changes the return profile for the entire strategy.

So, I think that now is a great time to be pursuing a distressed strategy. If we’re wrong, it’s not gonna hurt us to wait a little bit. If we’re right, I think we’re gonna be really well positioned as partners to take advantage of the market. And this time around, unlike 2008 where there was so much disruption in the market that anyone could enter, I think that there’s a lot of systems that have been put in place in the banks to manage foreclosures, to manage distress, to work out issues that there’s gonna be volume of potential opportunities, but the only people that are gonna really be able to participate are those that are plugged in and are already part of the institutional process. Caliber is one of those entities. And so, you’ve really, as an investor, I think, this time around, can’t sit on the sidelines and just wait until your local broker calls you and says, “Hey, I know about this foreclosure deal.” You actually need to pick a partner, get invested, have your capital waiting, because most of these distressed deals happen in weeks, not months.

Just a few more things on Caliber and I’ll move on to the funds. We basically have three different engines in-house. One is capital formation, so all of the communication and management of your capital is done at Caliber. We have a capital deployment engine, so that’s getting proprietary source of deal flow and experienced team out there buying for you. Like I mentioned, distressed assets, that’s in that non-traditional acquisitions bucket. And then a capital management infrastructure. So, all of your fund reporting, asset management, making sure that we’re keeping your money working, all that happens internally within Caliber.

And then on the product side, we offer two different types of products. Real estate equity investments where you are getting an ownership stake in that project and getting a K-1 and a profit participation with essentially like an uncapped return based on whatever the project is gonna produce. And then credit or private lending investments where you’re lending your money and getting a fixed rate of return, typically. Opportunity Zone Funds are obviously in the real estate equity bucket and Caliber offers, like I said, many other strategies depending on what it is that you’re looking for as an investor. And then last but not least, on the Opportunity Zone Funds, in particular, we are an impact investor, we do produce a quarterly impact report that’s available to you as an investor and we’re well positioned for any future reporting requirements that are gonna come through, which I think is gonna actually affect Opportunity Zone investors significantly because it does take time to put the infrastructure in place to report.

So, just talking through the strategy on the second fund, this is an opportunistic investment strategy, which generally means that we’re targeting to double the value of our equity every five years through real estate development, adaptive reuse, and a few other things. The way that Caliber manages the risk in the strategy is that we set a maximum loan-to-value of 50% in our fund and typically use less debt. And so by using less debt, using more equity, even though we’re doing high-return projects, we create a blended return and risk profile that I think is pretty attractive if you have a large exit that came out of a sale of a business or something else that you wanna make sure your capital is protected. I’ve shown this many, many times when I presented, but I think it’s the easiest way to explain an Opportunity Zone investment. This model shows you a million dollars at an 8% annual growth rate.

It’s not perfect. It’s showing you a discount on your capital gains. The discount is now gone due to the change in the timing unless the new law passes. But the bottom line is if you’re investing a million dollars at an 8% annual growth rate, you’re looking at nearly a triple of your net profit with essentially a similar rate of risk because it’s the same rate of return. So, it’s really about, how did I invest? What tax advantage did I get? And by investing in an Opportunity Zones Fund, you know, the proverbial juice is worth the squeeze. It’s worth it to lock up your money for a longer period of time to get this type of a tax benefit.

How do you get the best possible tax benefit? You’ve gotta grow the value of your capital. How do you grow the value of your capital? In Caliber strategy, it’s all about compounding gains within the fund. The most real estate developments and turnarounds, the majority of the value creation happens in the first five years. As the prior presenter mentioned, that’s where the hard work happens. You do all of that, you create value. And in Caliber strategy, we’re actually gonna sell those assets and then reinvest the proceeds within 12 months, sustain compliance with the program to try to compound the value growth of your investment in our fund. And then maximizing the exit, making sure we sell at the right time in the right way. Caliber’s positioning our funds for a reroll-up, which basically would mean that we exchange your private shares in the fund for public shares in an IPO/RI, which would allow you to make the decision on when you wanna sell your equity instead of us, which I think is a very flexible option for you.

What do you need in a sponsor to do that? I think you need three things. I think you need infrastructure, a track record, and deal flow and execution. And clearly, that’s something that we think we bring to the table for all of you. In our first fund, we raised 184 million. Since inception, investors have seen a 35% increase in their unit price. And, you know, we’re just at the very beginnings of this fund. Most of the money was raised later in the stage because the rules were obviously passed or the regulations were set in late 2019. So, raising capital after that became, you know, an opportunity that was much easier to pursue. And so many of the assets that are in the first fund have been acquired recently, one of which we acquired two weeks ago. And so, there’s gonna be, I think, a lot of continual growth in that fund for those investors that’s closed out today.

But the benefit to you in Fund II is that the first fund went out there, set the table, laid out all of the different…activated all these different markets and these deal makers and all this deal flow, and now Fund II is drafting off of that. So now, Fund I is nearly fully deployed, Fund II, as we raise capital, is now the funding source for all of our future deal flow. Some of the deals we did are shown here. What I’ll kind of point out to you is very opportunistic, mixed bag of projects. This is all workforce housing on this side of the equation. And as you go into, you know, what are the details of those projects, every deal that we do has a story. Every deal we do has a special situation where we thought we’re acquiring it well, we’re creating a value-add transformation, and we’re delivering that value gross to you.

This is a behavioral health hospital that was aborted up assisted living facility. We brought in a credit tenant, they signed a lease for 20 years with us. We renovated the building to a 96-bed acute care behavioral health hospital. We think it’s worth around $35 million or more, and we’re into it for about $23 million cost. So, it gives you an idea of that value creation and how we do that. It’s a little bit of what it looks like. Another story example is this is a great example of how we’re pairing the Opportunity Zone incentive with a deal with the city essentially to get a land lease that has cost us $1000 a year and then the ability to get tax credits beyond that. So, we actually have property tax and sales tax credits on this that amount to roughly a $7 million value.

So, we’re into this project for no land costs. Our construction costs less $7 million or so in value. Gives you an idea of what the DoubleTree looks like. It’s beautiful, and it’s consistently rated since we built it in the top 10% of all DoubleTrees in the world. And then again, another look at a value creation strategy. This is a multi-family project. It was actually built out and designed as townhomes and condo mapped to be sold off individually. We’re managing it as an apartment complex since it’s walking distance to a major university in Arizona, Arizona State. And the strategy here is to run it as an apartment complex, enjoy the rents for the next 10 years-plus, and then when it’s time to sell off, sell off each unit individually as a condo.

So, coming into fund number two, the strategy for our second fund. Our first fund is very Arizona-focused because that’s where we’re based. It’s much easier to access projects and deals in our own backyard. And we had to establish ourselves an Opportunity Zone investor across the region we wanted to invest in. Our second strategy is gonna be looking much more towards an Arizona, Colorado, and Texas combined strategy to penetrate the markets that we’ve been able to build into since the legislation was passed and since we’ve done our first round of investing. And just to give you a look at the fund structure, it’s an annual fee of 1.5% of capital contributions. We don’t grow that fee based on NAV growth, so our fee stays fixed for the entire period.

A little kind of contrast to the last presenter, because we’re pursuing a strategy where we’re actually doing turnarounds and then compounding your return, we’re doing that heavy lifting hard work through the entire cycle of fund. We don’t just build a portfolio and sit on it, we actually kind of move it forward as well after the first round gets done. And then we offer a 6% preferred return hurdle, an 80/20 split on profit over the 6 with a million-dollar minimum investment, and a 75/25 with $100,000 minimum investment. And then, today, for the purposes of your OpportunityDb Pitch, Jimmy didn’t tell you I was gonna do this, but we’re gonna offer anybody who comes through the OpportunityDb channel and through the Pitch Day today, an opportunity to come in at the 80/20 level regardless of their minimum investment. So, just wanted to give back to the community here at OpportunityDb and give you guys something that is really helpful, I think, to enhance your return.

Strategically, I just want to go through this last piece and then we’ll get into questions. I’ve got this and then a couple of examples of projects that are coming into the second fund. These are underwriting targets. There’s no guarantees here. We don’t know if we’re gonna be able to achieve these targets, but it’s important for you to know as an investor, what are we out there trying to accomplish. And so, the strategy for the fund has been transformed because since we launched it, we have seen a change in the market that is creating the opportunity to buy distress.

And whereas our first fund was more focused on ground-up construction for new projects, second fund is saying let’s buy broken construction projects from people who are in trouble, let’s buy empty office buildings and convert them to apartments. That’s adaptive reuse. Let’s do transformational renovations where we can come in and buy assets that just don’t have a path forward unless they get completely transformed. And buying existing assets is gonna be a main focus of this fund. And then, of course, strategically where it makes sense, doing ground-up development, we’ll continue to do. But we wanna make sure we’re buying that land at a really advantaged price and waiting to start the construction on the development until what we think is gonna be a drop in prices of costs and construction comes through.

Timeline, most deals we look at a three to eight-year turn, five-year on average. We sell and we reinvest. For the equity multiple, we’re targeting a minimum of a 2X multiple every five years, which is pretty typical in opportunistic investing and is pretty much translated across the board. And then the IRR target for the fund is 13% delivered. What that means is even though we’re targeting 2X multiple and we’re trying to turn it twice, we’re setting a lower IRR target for the investor because, at the end of the day, we’re using a lot less debt than most of our competitors. Now, theoretically, if we get the 2X multiple and we turn it twice, we’ll actually deliver a much better IRR. But that’s the targets we’ve set mostly because of the debt use. Okay? Maximum 50% LTV. We start with low debt or no debt and then we actually add debt when we stabilize assets. Right now, debt’s not very attractive because it’s really expensive. And I’d rather, if I’m gonna pay 7% or 8% to a debt provider, rather pay seven or 8% to our investors than just use equity.

And then our philosophy is place-based. We’re looking for insider access. I just met with a city official recently on a project that we think we can get, which gives us land essentially for free as long as we build certain structures for the city. Those types of deal are the deals that we’re constantly targeting, and it’s really about finding the best possible opportunity zones and finding the best assets in that Opportunity Zone or the needs of the community that are coming up to us through the community’s requirements. We’re a mixed asset class, so we’re gonna give you diversification across that. And we do target some special situations, as I already mentioned, greater Southwest and Mountain West. And then Caliber does act as a principal developer, so we do our own projects, but we also act as a co-developer. So, if you’re a smaller developer out there or you’ve got a project that you can’t fully fund and you think it’s a great project, feel free to bring it to the table. We’d love to look at it and potentially be your partner.

What’s gonna be in the first fund? Can’t tell you fully, it’s a blind pool, or in the second fund, you know, but I can show you some of the projects we’re already working on. ZenniHome is a multi-family 90-unit workforce housing project that’ll be affordable essentially. And it’s gonna be walking distance to a new ASU college campus in downtown Mesa. Riverwalk, I’ll show you in a second. Sierra Blooms and Medical Campus, we’re still at an early, early stage with, so not much to talk about there yet. And then Second Avenue Commons is also workforce housing in Mesa near the ASU new university.

So, we’re drafting off of a demand driver, which is the university itself. Gives you a little bit of look at what this is. It’s 144 units. It’s walking distance to the university’s entrance. Like I said, it’s workforce, meaning it’s a market rate housing that someone who makes the area-needed income could afford. And in addition to that, this project was already in construction. So Fund II got to take the last bit of equity that Fund I wasn’t gonna take or couldn’t take because it had been deployed. And we get to buy into a project that’s already being built and is likely to be leased in cash flowing in the near future.

Riverwalk Development we closed on two weeks ago and Fund I acquired the majority of the land. Fund II will be able to step in to essentially build-to-suit projects. So, these are projects where we have a tenant, we’ve got them signed up, we’ve got an exact strategy of what we’re gonna build, we’re going to build what the tenant is requiring, it’s what a build-to-suit is, and we know what that cash flow is gonna look like. So, Fund II is gonna step in, fund the vertical development on these projects and partner with the first fund and then take these things forward. So, in ground-up construction, Caliber is heavily focused only on projects where we have a tenant-in-tow to manage risk right now and we’re not building speculative development at this point in time.

So, that’s everything for me. I know we have a few minutes left to do some questions. You can reach us at [email protected], which I’ll just leave on the screen while we go through some questions. You can also just email me directly at [email protected] So, Jimmy, what do we have?

Jimmy: Fantastic. We’re good on time. We’ve got several minutes to answer the questions that we have. We did have several questions come in. If you do have any questions, please feel free to use the chat or the Q&A tool in your Zoom toolbar. And just a reminder, Chris Loeffler is going to be hopping into a breakout session in just a few minutes here. I’ve just posted the link for that breakout session in the Zoom chat, so you can open up the little Zoom chat in your Zoom toolbar. Don’t click that link just yet, we’re not quite ready for that, but have it ready. It’s a separate Zoom meeting that you’ll be able to enter. You can interact more one-on-one with Chris at the conclusion of our segment here. And then meanwhile, in the main session, if you want to just stay here, we’re gonna have a panel featuring Gordon Goldie, and Kirk Walton, “How to due diligence Opportunity Zone Funds.” Chris, let’s dive into the questions though. First question here is from Rick. Rick asks, for multi-family assets, do you target workforce housing?

Chris: Yeah. So, we have been targeting workforce because Class A has been so overbuilt in our minds. Having said that in the last, we are now shifting our focus to any developer who’s been building Class A multi-family or market, what you would call market rate multi-family, across the entire spectrum because anybody who’s been building multi-family in the last two to three years, in particular, came into a project typically with bridge debt because there was no other financing available in the last couple years. They probably are sitting at an 80% loan-to-value on their construction at what was at the time a 3% to 4% interest rate. They’re now facing a situation where when they finish their project, if they can, they’re gonna be refinancing at 60% loan-to-value at double the cost of the debt.

So, if I say to you as an investor, “Hey, Bob,” or you know, whatever your name is, investor, “I’m gonna put in $10 million of this project in equity, I’m gonna give you X rate of return,” and I have to come back to two years later and say, “I need another $10 million for half the rate of return,” how easy is it for that developer gonna be to raise that second round of equity? I think they’re gonna really struggle.

And so, we’re looking for those types of developers that are in that situation where we can come in as a white knight, we can fix the problem for them, it’ll benefit our investors disproportionately to their original investors, but at least we get the project done and built. And I think there’s gonna be a lot of really interesting opportunities in that space. So, we don’t specifically only target one style of multi-family, we just didn’t want to build anything that was outside of an affordable product in the last couple years because we really feel like there was gonna be an affordability issue and it seems to be coming in fruition.

Jimmy: Yeah. Well, I do wanted to get your breakout session started in just a second here, but let’s try to see if we can do one or two more questions here in the main session. Good one here, asks, how soon do you see a return on your investment?

Chris: So, in any Opportunity Zone strategy, it is a long-term investment. What you’ll see and what you should expect as an investor is kind of like a typical private equity J-curve, which means for the first couple years, you’re gonna see no distributions. You’re gonna see valuation at least every year, typically from your fund manager. That’s gonna be the same for Caliber where you’re gonna see the value of your share reflecting whatever growth has occurred and the value of those underlying assets. And whatever your preferred return is, ours is 6%, is accumulating. So every year, 6% a year, you’re accumulating and you have to get paid that before we, as a fund manager, get any profit sharing.

So, you’re gonna see that first couple of typically three years where there’s gonna be no distributions and value creation, and then you’re gonna start to see in years four, five, six, and later, distributions from cash flow because we’ve taken your money, we’ve bought something, we’ve built it, we’ve made it income producing, and that those income-producing events allow us to start creating a regular cash flow for you. So, think of it like a delayed return annuity where a lot of the value creation happens in the beginning in terms of an increase in your share price. And then there’s gonna be the middle part, which is gonna be income distributions from rents. And then there’s gonna be the end where you’re gonna have, hopefully, the big pop in value because we did a good job and created a spread between what you’re into these projects for and cost and what the market rate value is.

Jimmy: Terrific. Well, this has been Chris Loeffler with Caliber. Chris, I wanna thank you also for extending those preferred terms to anybody here today from OpportunityDb. That’s great that you’re doing that for our audience today. We’re gonna wrap up here and send you, Chris, into your breakout session. So, I just posted the link in the chat. It’s a separate Zoom meeting. I’m gonna post it one more time here. Chris, you should head over there now. Thank you for coming here today though, Chris, and we’ll be in touch soon, I’m sure.

Chris: Thank you.