The Impact Of Rising Interest Rates On Opportunity Zones, With James Brunger

The stock market is down, inflation is at 40-year highs, and interest rates are on the rise. How are rising debt costs impacting the operations of Qualified Opportunity Fund operators?

James Brunger, chief sales officer at Capital Square, joins the show to discuss Capital Square’s DST and Opportunity Zone programs, and how recent moves by the Fed are impacting where investors can still find value.

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Episode Highlights

  • A high level overview of Capital Square’s Opportunity Zone program since its rollout in 2019.
  • How the Fed’s recent spate of interest rate increases has impacted the operations at Capital Square, and where investors can still find value, given higher debt costs and low cap rates.
  • How the market downturn this year has impacted the number of investors with big gains flowing into Qualified Opportunity Funds.
  • Where Capital Square’s Qualified Opportunity Fund investors’ gains are coming from — real estate vs. stocks vs. private business sales.
  • When we expect the Opportunity Zone reform legislation to potentially get passed by Congress later this year.
  • A review of Capital Square’s first seven Opportunity Zone projects (many of which are already fully leased up and cash flowing), in Richmond, VA, Raleigh, NC, and Charleston, SC, and how many new housing units they have created through their OZ platform to date.
  • How High Net Worth investors with gains should approach 1031 DSTs and Opportunity Zones.

Today’s Guests: James Brunger, Capital Square

James Brunger on the Opportunity Zones Podcast

About The Opportunity Zones Podcast

Hosted by OpportunityDb.com founder Jimmy Atkinson, The Opportunity Zones Podcast features guest interviews from fund managers, advisors, policymakers, tax professionals, and other foremost experts in opportunity zones.

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Show Transcript

Jimmy: Welcome to the “Opportunity Zones Podcast.” I’m Jimmy Atkinson. I’m joined today by James Brunger, chief sales officer at Capital Square. He’s no stranger to the podcast. He’s been on once or twice before.

James joins us today from Richmond, Virginia. James, how are you doing? Welcome to the show.

James: Hey, thank you, Jimmy. I’m doing great. I appreciate the opportunity to be back on.

Jimmy: Absolutely. We’re always happy having you here, James. And it sounds like I might run into you at the ADISA Conference in Las Vegas in, well, a couple of weeks away now. So, looking forward to seeing you out there. But let’s dive in today. Let’s talk about Capital Square, first and foremost, James. You guys are one of the largest DST sponsors.

You do a lot of opportunity zone deals as well. Can you give us, at a high level, what’s the update on Capital Square, what you’re doing with your DST and your OZ and your other real estate programs?

James: Yeah, sure. No, absolutely. And again, you know, thanks for the opportunity. And at ADISA, we’ll be celebrating our 10th anniversary as a company. So, very excited about that. Capital Square, you know, very fortunate, we’re the third largest syndicator in 1031s. That’s our bread and butter.

That’s what we’ve made our name for. Branched into opportunity zones right when the opportunity zone legislation came around. Fortunately, right behind me, this is our seventh opportunity zone fund. We generally raise single property funds. So, thank you to everybody who has already invested with us. And yeah, this project will end up being about a $40 million capitalization. So, when you look at it all, our total equity raise in opportunity zones will be over $300 million since we started the program, which is great.

Amazing to see kind of what’s going on there. From opportunity zones, we’ve also branched into our core competency of development funds associated with multifamily programs, really kind of in our Southeast focus markets, all the markets that we bi-stabilized in where we see development opportunities including non-OZ development opportunities.

We’ve really been rolling out a lot of those programs. So, look forward to continuing to diversify our base. We are cross now over $6.4 billion in total assets which is amazing. It’s really been an incredible couple years. And then this quarter now is our record quarter on total capital raised which feel like every quarter, we’ve been hitting records.

So, thank you to everybody, thanks to, you know, the entire industry as far as where we are today. Things have been going really well. And yeah, our OZ projects just thrilled with kind of where we’ve been on those and some of the things we’ve been able to accomplish.

Jimmy: No, that’s great, James. And over $300 million raised for opportunity zones, if I heard you correctly, that’s great. And I want to ask you more specifically about all of the different OZ projects that you’ve rolled out over the past few years that you just mentioned you’re on your seventh fund right now. Let’s talk about that a little bit later on in the program, get the update on those projects a little bit later on.

But first, I wanted to focus on macroeconomic trends. And let’s start with interest rates, right? We have big inflation in this country, and as a result, the Fed has increased interest rates several times over the last few months. They just… I think it was just last week, they raised rates by another 75 basis points. So, interest rates on the rise and that impacts you guys. Of course, earlier this year, we were chatting right before we hit the record button here, James, you were able to secure debt financing for below 3% in many cases just a few months ago and now you’re up above 5%.

How has that rather sudden change in interest rates impacted your operations?

James: Yeah, you’re absolutely correct. It’s stunning. Not necessarily the fact that they’ve tried… the Fed is trying to hit a neutral position, but the pace of which it’s really whipsawed the market. You’re looking today. Yesterday we touched over 4 on the 10-year treasury.

That’s an almost 90 basis point rise in the last 30 days. So, the market has reacted quickly, you know, to the Fed’s moves. And what that’s done for us, we’re looking 5, 5.5. We’re modeling even 5.75 on future purchases. So, especially in the core of the stabilized side for the DST programs, we haven’t seen quite yet a blowout in cap rate.

So, there’s still a lot of money, a lot of capital markets chasing good high-quality core stabilized multifamily. A lot of that has to do with the fact that, you know, the inflation in rents, which has been reported everywhere, has been exceptional. We, years ago, had our economic advisor, Dr. Peter Linneman, write a white paper called “The Golden Age of Multifamily Investing.”

He had positioned a 10-year trend line for how we’ve had in the country a major underfunding and underbuilding for decades. So, we were a very short housing supply for a very long period of time, and then, you know, that impacted the opportunity going forward on multifamily. We’ve seen that accelerate in the last couple years as housing still is just really very, very short.

So, that rise in interest rates is obviously still impacting and really impacting where we’re seeing tremendous value opportunity while the purchase market remains very tight for the best quality assets. So, cap rates, 4.75, 5, we’re starting to see some purchasing come right around 5.25, but at interest rates at 5.25 as well or 5.5, you’re still a little bit of an aversion.

So, it’s tough to find a ton of value in core or stabilized unless you’re really in a high-growth market. That’s part of our general thesis why we focus on higher-growth southeastern markets. And it’s proven to be very good. I do miss the days here earlier this year, especially in the first quarter where we were at 3, 3.25, and buying at 4 caps.

Happy to buy at 5.5, but not happy to have interest rates at 5.5. But what that’s really done is just help us focus more on where there’s still tremendous value for those people willing to take a little more risk in the development side, both in the opportunity zone and also non-opportunity zone developments.

We’re still building yield on costs, 6.5, 6.75, so easily, you know, 15% to 25%, you know, wide of where current cap rates are even as they’ve expanded on your core stabilized. Great news is core material costs are coming down. Lumber just as an example is down below pre-pandemic levels.

So, all of the kind of wild variation that we’ve had in supply chain and core materials costs are starting to stabilize. That makes development a lot easier to underwrite and take a really good look at where your risks are. So, we still see tremendous value. The core stabilized 1031 side has done very well. Starting to see a little bit of slow down.

Until cap rates really expand out, it’s going to be really hard to derive, you know, great value there. And then on the stabilizer opportunistic side that you get are on the development and opportunistic side, specifically in OZ’s, there’s still a lot of good value there. Just longer time horizon, a little bit more risk as we always talk about, but great tax advantages associated with the OZ programs.

Jimmy: For sure. Yeah, we’ll talk about DSTs versus OZs a little bit later in the program as well. But, you know, if I’m hearing you correctly, just to kind of summarize, cap rate compression is slowing down. Maybe we’ve got some cap rate expansion happening down the road here at some point in time, but in the meantime, it’s tough to get a lot of value out of stabilized assets, which is really where you’re playing into with Delaware Statutory Trust investments just by the nature of the program.

But still, you’re seeing value in ground-up development with OZs. Did I get that right?

James: You got it. As long as you have a longer-term view, that’s where there’s a lot more value right now.

Jimmy: Yeah. And two totally different types of investor profiles oftentimes and different time horizons with those types of investments. We’ll talk about that a little bit later in the show. I don’t want to give away too much, but…

James: Yeah, that’s okay.

Jimmy: …let’s keep talking about current economic trends and market trends. Let’s turn into the stock market now. The market is down more than 20% this year. The Dow just a day or two ago hit a low for this year. Quite a change compared to where we were the last couple years coming out of the pandemic.

I think it was about mid-2020 was when the bull market started really going again and now it’s all kind of taken a big nose dive over these last, what, I guess since the beginning of the year really was when it started turning down. So, what that’s resulted in is maybe you’ve got fewer investors with big gains.

How are you handling that? How has that impacted your opportunity zone program? Do you see fewer investors with gains coming to you? Has there been a slowdown there at all?

James: Definitely, it’s off. And yes, obviously, it’d be obtuse to think that, you know, gains being eliminated by value are not going to influence opportunities for people to defer and eliminate tax through the OZ programs. For example, the raise that we’re doing on the fund behind us, you know, we’re averaging about $2.5 million a week.

In previous times, we might have two programs going at any given time and we might have averaged $6 million a week between the two programs. So, we’re off but we’re not that far off. And what we’re finding is there’s still just a lot of people who have no idea the opportunity zones exist. There are a lot of gains even at reduced value.

As we all know, people’s preference is to look at what’s happened in the recent past. Personally, my own accounts, I’ve stopped looking because the last week was really painful. But if I’m objectively looking at it, I have embedded gains from, you know, five, seven, eight, nine-year holds that if I want to reposition my portfolio, I’ll continue to have gains.

I think that’s true of a lot of people. So, realistically, the short gains are gone, the shorter timeframes gains are gone, but there’s still plenty of people who have very good long-term gain and in repositioning their portfolio of stocks specifically, they should be able to continue to make investments.

The last thing I’ll say too, just like we’re seeing in core stabilized, you know, real estate where there’s plenty of money continuing to chase high growth, high-quality apartment buildings in our case, there is still a lot of private equity chasing good high-growth or good profitable companies. So, on the private equity side, on the private side, we continue to see larger dollar opportunities associated with investment opportunity zones.

Anybody who’s on this who’s a business owner, you know, if you started your own business, your basis is likely zero. So, even if you could have sold your company for $3, $4, $8, $10 million a couple years ago and now you sell it for $7 million, you still have a big gain problem. It’s just, you know, something that’s kind of shifted a little bit. And so we still continue to see pretty good consistent baseline, but definitely off the tops.

As you know too, just doing these, you know, podcasts, it’s spreading the message in the opportunity zone that it’s there. We still haven’t reached anywhere near peak recognition that this is a great generational tax-saving opportunity.

Jimmy: Yeah, I completely agree with that. And yeah, each episode we put out, I’m hoping we’re taking one step forward to getting the word out there a little more. You mentioned having a big gain problem if you sell your business at zero basis. It’s a good problem to have, though, but it kind of leads me to my next question, which is, I don’t know if you track this at all, James, but do you have any sense of where your investors’ gains are coming from, typically?

And just looking at your OZ program right now, right? Because, obviously, your DST program, it’s all real estate gains. But your OZ program, are they coming in a lot from sale of stock or is it more private business and has that changed at all over time? Or maybe you’ve got some Bitcoin investors too with some low-basis Bitcoin gains or something like that. I don’t know.

James: Actually, we did have a lot of Bitcoin investors early on in our programs. Not surprisingly since most people are coming to us from real estate positions being known so well in the 1031 in the DST space, well more than 50% of our OZ gain investors are real estate sales. They’re looking at opportunity zone for its investment profile over the complete tax deferral associated with a 1031.

So, more and more of them for us are electing to pay tax on a deferred basis through the OZ program in specific focus of hoping to achieve the potential return profile of development. So, kind of as I alluded, there’s a lot of value on a macro-level and, you know, the opportunistic development side just by the nature of opportunity zones that are really build to core, right?

So, build, get that development value, and then hold through core, operate effectively on a really long basis. A lot of those investors for us, they like long-term real estate, they like the value in opportunistic development, and then, obviously, the benefits associated with OZ. That leaves the other about 40% that is through stock and private gains.

I would say just real rough numbers, probably 15% are actual liquid stock gains, and then I would say, you know, 25%, 30% are from private asset sales. Good tax advisors are really attuned to what we’ve got going on, so we’ve been very fortunate, you know, those firms, financial firms, RIAs that have a tax practice tied to them in some way, shape or form, they’re the ones really pushing the envelope on making sure that the gain and specifically gain on business sales are, you know, deferred in some way, shape, or form.

So, that’s a good breakdown on kind of where we are. I would never expect it to change too much since we are known in the real estate space that, you know, the vast majority of our investors are still probably going to come to us with gain from real estate sales.

Jimmy: No, that makes sense. And that’s a good breakdown. I appreciate that.

James: Yeah.

Jimmy: All right, James, shifting gears here a little bit. I wanted to talk with you about the potential legislative extension of the opportunity zones program. I’ve covered this extensively on and off on the podcast over the last several months since the legislation was first introduced in April. We’re getting closer now to election day and the end of the year. How does Capital Square think about that OZ legislation as we head into the fall season here?

James: Yeah, no, absolutely. Kind of like you, we’ve been staying very close to our member organizations, our lobby, our lobby efforts. Being headquartered in Richmond, we’re very fortunate that we actually get to participate in a lot of the actual physical lobby efforts whenever we can.

We spend a lot of time, obviously, on 1031, and then we spend a good deal of time on OZ as well. What it sounds like, and I like this, first and foremost, for those of you just to recap, I know you’ve probably talked about in another podcast. Senator Tim Scott and Senator Cory Booker are the original, you know, leads on the legislation that created the opportunity zone as part of the Tax and Jobs Cut Act.

They’ve written a letter that they proposed earlier this year, an extension as well as a couple of other adjustments to the OZ program. Since it took a while for final legislation, final rulings to come across on OZs, the extension would defer change of the deferral period from 2026 to 2028. What it looks like to the best that we can tell, and again, from all of our lobby and focus group efforts is that it will likely be hitting the floor for Congress, both Senate likely first and Senator Booker and Senator Scott or the leads likely hit the Senate first and then, you know, probably move on to the house after, likely after the election and before the next Congress is seated.

So, we do expect and have great hopes that that will come to pass before the end of the year. If anything, that really just extends, obviously, everybody’s opportunity to take a look at where OZs fit well for them and where opportunity zone deferral fits well. Specifically for us on the development side, that will open up a whole new wave of programs. We really are focused on developing and stabilizing before taxes are due so that we can get a special distribution through cash out, refinance out to our investors, help them pay the tax bill, right?

Provide cash…

Jimmy: And the one that’s due in early ’27, right?

James: Early ’27 is when it’s due today. If it was due in early ’29, that would really give us an opportunity to continue to look at other projects. It may have a little bit longer of a window or an opportunity to come to fruition, to come to stabilization. So, very focused on it, but it looks like, you know, it’s going to be a busy end of the year, and then hopefully the legislation will get on the floor.

Ideally, just bipartisan support seems very strong. It has worked. And you know better than I do how much money has been raised in OZs. Having that, I think, you know, and having a good track record that the program has actually worked should give everybody, all the legislators confidence that, you know, extending it actually will be a good thing.

Jimmy: Yeah, that’s the trick, right? It’s getting proof to the public and to Congress that this is a good program, it is working, and if they extend it, it’s going to prolong the efforts and it’s going to do more good for a longer period of time. So, fingers crossed. It sounds like we’re hearing a lot of the same things that you are, James. That’s kind of what I’ve heard as well, is that there is a good chance that it gets passed, it is supported in bipartisan fashion, and hopefully it happens between election day and the end of the year or at least before the next Congress is seated.

That would be a tremendous outcome for the industry, of course. Well, I want to get back to your opportunity zone projects, James, the Capital Square QOFs. Could you review or walk us through the different projects that you’ve rolled out over the past several years and…?

James: I relish the opportunity, actually, because we’ve had a massive amount of success in what’s going on. We started our first program raising money in 2019. Our first opportunity zone is now gone… is fully stabilized, 100% leased, 70-unit apartment building here in Richmond, Virginia in a neighborhood called Scott’s Edition, formerly an industrial area.

Much needed housing in the area. That was delivered. We refinanced and created a special distribution of 53% of the original equity out to our investors. So, successful both for the investment and then, obviously, for the fact that we’re bringing housing to the community. Right next door was our second OZ fund.

That is now 97% occupied. And we’ve hit stabilization. Refinance special distribution will be kicked out next month, October, for those investors. A little bit less on the total proceeds, just obviously some of the financing costs have gone up, you know, associated with the rate, but the proceeds will be just under 45% of the original investment as well.

James: So, to go from 2019 to people living in these opportunity zones, to having the housing solutions, and then also creating some success, and now also quarterly distributions for our investors, that’s been great. Our third one will be stabilized before the end of the year also here in Scott’s Edition. It’s called OZ5, but really our fourth project to deliver a partnership with Gray Star on a big 350-unit project.

That, we’ll deliver in November of this year. So, you know, big housing solutions, probably not stabilized until kind of June of next year just based on velocity. It’s harder to get a 350-unit building full. But it’s a beautiful project, really going to be a game changer for this neighborhood. I don’t want to say blighted neighborhood, it’s just an old industrial neighborhood that didn’t have anything pretty.

Now it’s got a couple really pretty things in it. And, you know, obviously, for Richmond itself, the city, providing, you know, a lot more housing solutions, which relieves pressure across the board on, you know, a lot of the housing. We’re getting about 15,000 people a year moving to Richmond which is a lot when you look at general population trends and there’s nowhere near enough housing.

So, it’s great to be able to do as intended on the OZs. We’ve broken ground in Senator Scott’s backyard of Charleston, South Carolina. We broke ground in an apartment hotel concept on Upper King Street. King Street’s on the peninsula of Charleston’s, kind of the street, if you will.

Upper King Street has been the rougher end, so to speak, and kind of the undercapitalized end. Revitalizing that side of the peninsula is helping some underserved communities. And so this hotel will bring in…apartment hotel will bring in some tourism, some dollars and some attention to kind of an under-focused on side of the community.

Really thrilled to be able to deliver there. We’ve got a nice shout-out from Senator Scott, which is nice. And, you know, it’s working. He’s been a big champion of Charleston specifically, but then obviously the state of South Carolina. And then we broke ground on our… We have a 20-storey, very large development in downtown Raleigh, North Carolina just on the south side of town.

Again, kind of is… Raleigh has exploded and done exceptionally well. All of the growth has really been concentrated on the north side of town and the north side of downtown, the state capital. So, this is investing in a side of the community that has received very little capitalization. This project we’re excited won’t be delivered until 2026, but we’re really excited that it’s getting going and it’s really a skyline-defining project because it’ll be the tallest residential-only tower in all of Raleigh.

So, you know, bringing a little bit more focus in a very meaningful and impactful and visual way to a side of Raleigh that has not benefited as equally as some of the other sides of Raleigh. So, really cool, excited. Our seven fund is back here in Richmond, and then the 350-unit in Scott’s Edition has done exceptionally well.

The demand for housing is almost insatiable. So, it should be a nice project to deliver. We’re aiming at a slightly lower price point as well on all market rate, but, you know, having some kind of focus to make things a little more affordable is definitely something that still benefits both investors, but realistically benefits the community. So, that’s a little bit more of the focus on this project.

A number of other things in the mix, I’m not going to mention them, but it’s a nice recap on where we’ve been and it’s really exciting to see the OZ program motivated us to deliver housing solutions which benefit in the long run. And it’s amazing to see that it’s worked and to be a part of and stand in these projects that are now, you know, vibrant communities unto themselves, which, you know, really is why it was there.

So, exciting times.

Jimmy: Yeah, absolutely. How much housing have you created through your OZ program so far to date?

James: Yeah. So, at the end of this year, we’ll have just under 650 units delivered. So, they’re all kind of at leasing right now or fully leased up.

Jimmy: That’s great.

James: Yeah, pretty excited about that. Total build capitalization would be about $1 billion. So, $300 million of total equity investment turns to about $1 billion of total real estate value which is, you know, a really great thing for a lot of people.

Jimmy: Yeah, absolutely.

James: Yeah.

Jimmy: It’s been neat to witness how we’re kind of turning the corner now on this opportunity zone program. I first started OpportunityDb and this podcast in 2018 and, you know, in 2018 and in 2019 and 2020, it was a lot of talk about, “Here’s how the program works. Here’s some of our models. Here’s our pipeline. Here’s what we’re planning to do.”

Now, you know, we’re looking back from 2022 and Capital Square and other sponsors like Capital Square aren’t… It’s not just modeling and projections, it’s actually, “Here’s what we’ve done. Here’s what we’ve built. Here, we’re leased up. We’re cash flowing back to our investors. We’re doing refinance distributions to our investors.”

So, it’s actually, the marketplace has matured quite a bit and these fund programs are maturing quite a bit. So, I’m hoping that this podcast… And James, you’re one of the first to come on so far to really recap what you have built and how it’s actually transforming some of these neighborhoods that you’re in.

I’m hoping to kind of carry this on with some future guests of mine. But James, I appreciate you kind of kicking things off here and giving us a little bit of transparency into how the program has actually worked for you and what good… – Well, I mean, ideally back on your legislative question, you know, we use that in our lobby efforts to prove not only, as you see, with investors and, you know, the concept was hypothetical and is now real, but also, obviously, to prove to legislators that an extension actually only increases the opportunity over time.

As you know, I think you know this, I welcome competitors. And the reason why is because that will really truly lift the entire ideal of the programs to really capitalize under-capitalized communities.

Jimmy: Of course.

James: And, you know, it’d be great to see that kind of disparity evened out a little bit as far as where capital is really moving.

Jimmy: Yep, could not agree more. And I think we are seeing plenty of that slowly but surely. But let’s kind of wrap things up here in the next few minutes. I did want to ask you about Delaware Statutory Trust. I mean, we touched upon DSTs and OZs and some of the differences between those two different tax-advantaged investment vehicles. How do you talk with your investors about those two different programs that you have?

You guys are one of the largest DST sponsors in the country. It’s certainly helped you leverage your opportunity zone program and you’ve raised quite a bit of capital through your OZ program as well, but you’ve got investors probably coming to you, sometimes they’re not sure what to do. How do you talk with them about that?

James: Yeah, great question. I think you highlighted this earlier. It’s really two different fundamental approaches to investing. 1031 has been around for 101 years now and is likely the greatest tax deferral vehicle in the tax code. There really is nothing else like it.

The nature of those investors are looking at more core stabilized income-producing assets. That’s the nature and the requirement associated with Delaware Statutory Trust as far as the organization, as well as 1031 legislation. There isn’t an opportunity truly without very creative or very legal-heavy ways to look at development to fulfill 1031 exchange obligations to continue tax deferral.

Absolutely an incredible vehicle for continuing tax deferral wealth generation and then frankly value in real estate over time across the entire spectrum. Opportunity zones are a great generational tax-saving opportunity. And I say saving because really, it’s just a deferral.

The deferral, though, which we’ve highlighted is an amazing benefit. And then, obviously, the complete elimination of any gains above that deferral is that generational tax-saving opportunity that more and more people should look at. They don’t study it quite as much as they should. Different profile of investor, though, because of the requirements on your basis requirements, the requirements on fulfilling the obligations associated with capitalizing investment projects.

In opportunity zones, it really, by nature, is going to be riskier because you’re more opportunistic development focused, especially for us, you know, development and real estate focused along with that risk generally has a potential higher return profile. Obviously, not guaranteed, but, you know, realistically, it’s just a different investor focus.

So, our investors who have gained, we brought this up, about 50%, are real estate gain, they have the opportunity to defer through 1031 exchange in our Delaware Statutory Trust program. They’re choosing to not and look at a profile of investment associated with opportunity zones that might fit a little bit better for what they’re focused on, willing to pay the tax on a deferral basis, but they want to take and accept some of that risk associated with the development opportunity.

That’s how we talk about it. It really is investor choice, if you will. If they’re truly focused on maximizing tax deferral, there’s nothing better than 1031. If they’re truly focused on a differentiated investment, potential investment return, they’ll take a good look at the opportunity zones as well just simply because of the nature of what we’re doing.

Jimmy: Yep. And then if it’s non-real estate gain that they have, if it’s stock or private business sale, then…

James: Yeah, opportunity zone really.

Jimmy: …they’re really looking at just opportunity zones there, yeah.

James: And, I mean, that’s where the best opportunity is associated with expanding and continuing the expansion of opportunity zone investments. We’re getting up to tax harvesting here. This year, you know, everybody looks at tax loss or tax gain harvesting. In the past, most people don’t tax gain harvest because they don’t have anything to go into to help them out. They just offset with losses.

Well, you know, if you have gains and you want to harvest gains, opportunity zones is an excellent opportunity for, forget the pun, for people to take a look at tax gain harvesting and I think it’s still very underutilized.

Jimmy: Awesome. Well, James, it’s been a pleasure speaking with you today. Always insightful talking with you. If we have any of our listeners and viewers who are investors or advisors and they want to learn more about Capital Square, maybe talk to your team or talk to you, where can they go to learn more?

James: Absolutely. Great to always talk with you, Jimmy. Our website, www.capitalsq, so Capital Square, you can Google it as well, but capitalsq.com. Or financial advisors. We work through intermediaries across the country, so any professional financial advisor is great resource.

If they would like to learn more, obviously, the best way to reach us is capitalsq.com. And then true to form, every single one of our offerings has my direct cell phone number, which one of these days I might try and switch, but I love talking to people or filtering people out to our team, anybody on our team at Capital Square to answer questions, talk specifically about opportunity zones, would love the opportunity to do so.

So, again, thank you, Jimmy. I hopefully see you sometime here in the near term as we bounce around the country at various conferences.

Jimmy: Yeah, hopefully. And for our listeners and viewers out there today, of course, as always, I will have show notes available on the Opportunity Zone Database website. You can find those at opportunitydb.com/podcast. And there, I’ll have links to all of the resources that James and I discussed on today’s episode. And please be sure to subscribe to us on YouTube or your favorite podcast-listening platform to always get the latest episodes.

James, thanks again, buddy.

James: Take care, Jimmy. Be safe.

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