A Vertically Integrated OZ Fund, With Chris Loeffler

What does it mean to be vertically integrated in the opportunity zones investment process? And how might vertical integration increase profits and shareholder returns?

Chris Loeffler is the CEO of Caliber and serves as Chairman of the Company’s Board of Directors. As CEO, Chris directs and executes global strategy, oversees investments and fund management, and contributes to private and public capital formation.

Click the play button above to listen to our conversation with Chris.

Episode Highlights

  • An overview of Caliber and the OZ investment opportunities they have to offer.
  • Benefits to being vertically integrated and regionally diversified.
  • A fund manager’s perspective on what may happen with OZ legislation.
  • How Caliber is helping to open up access to alternative assets for Main Street investors.
  • Some best practices for identifying the right opportunity zone investments.
  • Benefits of attending the upcoming OZ Pitch Day, live and online on March 29th, 2022.

Featured On This Episode

Industry Spotlight: Caliber

Founded by Chris Loeffler in 2009 in the wake of the financial crisis, Scottsdale, AZ-based Caliber is an asset management and real estate services firm with over $750 million in assets under management and development in commercial, residential, and hospitality real estate in Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Nevada, Texas, and Utah. Their $500 million Tax Advantaged Opportunity Zone Fund LP was among the first of its kind launched last year.

Learn more about Caliber

About The Opportunity Zones Podcast

Hosted by OpportunityDb.com founder Jimmy Atkinson, The Opportunity Zones Podcast features guest interviews from fund managers, advisors, policymakers, tax professionals, and other foremost experts in opportunity zones.

Show Transcript

Jimmy: Welcome to The Opportunity Zones Podcast, I’m your host, Jimmy Atkinson. And during this month of March, you may have noticed this podcast will be previewing OZ Pitch Day, our upcoming live online event that showcases several qualified opportunity funds. Joining me today is Chris Loeffler, CEO of Caliber. His team at Caliber, George Pace specifically, will be presenting their Caliber Opportunity Zone Fund later this month. Chris is here joining me today from Scottsdale, Arizona. Chris, welcome to the show. How’s it going?

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Chris: It’s great to talk to you again, Jimmy. And happy to be here. It’s going good. We kicked off this year with a bang and last year was one of our best years that we ever had. So it’s always good to be firing on all cylinders.

Jimmy: Fantastic. Yeah. And we’re happy to be hosting you guys on OZ Pitch Day, again, just a few weeks from today now. And unfortunately, we’re not getting you, right, but George Pace, your team member, will be filling in giving the presentation on Caliber. You mentioned you had a great end to last year. Last year, wrapping up, particularly Q4 of 2021 was really a big time for capital raising within the opportunity zone marketplace. A lot of opportunity zone funds raised. A whole bunch of money in Q4 as that 10% basis step-up expired after December 31. What was the capital raising like for you and your team at Caliber, Chris?

Chris: Yeah, it was really good. For the pitch, as you mentioned, George is gonna have to step in. He’s the better-looking, more experienced version of me anyway. I think you guys will be happy to have George on. I’ve got a baby coming late March here.

Jimmy: Congrats.

Chris: So I’m gonna have a couple of weeks to focus inward on changing diapers and all the things that come from that. So that’s a big deal for us. And yeah, Jimmy, as you mentioned, we had an amazing fourth quarter. Last year was a record year for Caliber in terms of capital raised. And I think a lot of it came from obviously the momentum behind people getting vaccinated, people starting to realize that the economy was still cranking regardless of the pandemic and what was going on in the world around us. And then investors really started to turn back to longer-term decisions, how do I protect myself from taxes? How do I deal with all of these allocations that I need to make?

And so for Caliber, in particular, we were the only team that was still in the office on 12/31. It was the sales and marketing and customer service team, myself included processing orders up until, you know, the exact wire cutoff deadline for the bank. So it was a big raise for us, but also I think it was great to be able to accommodate those investors who their very last minute needed to find a place for their money to go. So we’re looking at similar deadlines coming up here on June 30th, and we’re gonna be prepared for that as well.

Jimmy: Yep. And then maybe another deadline coming up, it’s early September for K-1 gains, but that’s a few months off still, I guess.

Chris: Yeah. We try to focus on, I guess, one quarter at a time and we’ve got a bunch of people as of March 31st that need to make decisions as well. So it’s been just every…seems like every quarter-end, there seems to be a rush.

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Jimmy: Yeah, I can only imagine. I would suspect that the year-end is probably always a big one though, but we’re getting ahead of ourselves. I wanted to focus on your fund, Chris, your qualified opportunity fund, some of the projects in it. I know you’re closing it pretty soon too, but first, I wanted to kind of get your picture on the Opportunity Zone Program at large, specifically, what’s your perspective on what may happen with OZ legislation? I know you’re pretty plugged into the goings-on in Capitol Hill, you have some contacts in Washington. Do you think we might see an update or an extension to the opportunity zone legislation and how might that impact investors and their advisors?

Chris: I think that there’s a common understanding across all elements of OZ investing that having the regulations get finalized three months before COVID hit the country was not an effective way to raise capital into this program. And even with that, we still did…I’ve done some pretty incredible numbers considering the headwinds that all of us faced in the space of raising money and trying to put it to work. So I think that there’s a view that an extension to those deadlines make sense. And I know there’s some exploration going on and how to make that happen, but which just really reopens some of those windows for us as investors to capture, you know, the step-up in basis and reset the clock so that now that we actually know how the program works, we actually have a pipeline of projects that we can start investing into.

We can make a much bigger impact if we can bring investors to the table with all of this knowledge in hand, instead of what we started with in 2018, where we didn’t really know what we were selling, we just were trying to get people these tax benefits before their opportunity to invest expired. So I think that’s a big component of what’s coming. I guess I’m an optimist and I’m a believer in when there’s actual substance behind a program that’s working, then there’s gonna be support for it regardless of the politics of it all. And there’s a lot of substance in the Opportunity Zone Program, especially as we start to push more and more reporting out there, we’re starting to see that, gee, you know, the vast majority of projects that are being done are being done creating that economic development and that growth that we’re all looking for out of the program.

And I think ultimately, growing the tax base of the communities so they can deliver great services to their residents and start to lift some of these communities out of this higher levels of poverty, lower levels of economic opportunity, and all of the things that matter that we’re trying to pursue in the program in the first place. So I think the program’s actually working. And I think that the fact that it’s working is starting to be recognized in the right places across the country and will hopefully lead to an extension to the fundraising window so we can get more capital to work here.

Jimmy: And any idea what an extension might look like, what form it might take and how many years, and when that might pass, when we might see that legislation pass? I know I’m kind of asking you the impossible to look into a crystal ball that you may or may not even own, but just curious if you’ve heard anything or have any thoughts on timelines and how it may all play out.

Chris: Yeah. You know, history does tend to repeat itself. And in the past, when a tax program is working, the first extension starts to lay the groundwork for, you know, a series of ongoing extensions that allow the program to be managed and monitored appropriately. And so I don’t really care what format this comes in as long as we get our first one done and it gives us the opportunity to continue to prove to the U.S. leadership that us in the private sector who are involved and the public sector who are involved, we’re all working together to try to create the outcomes that was part of the original program. So any form of extension would be good.

It could come in the form of some sort of regulatory extension under the rules under kind of the impact of COVID on the country, or it certainly could come through with a reform bill that would be adding in the requirements for reporting that we’re all expecting to see and potentially extending the windows on the program that way as well. So either way, I’m good with whatever we can get. And I hope that all of the participants in the industry, investors included, will write their congressperson and explain to them the value of this program and why they would like to see it extended.

Jimmy: Very good. Fingers crossed. I’m hoping it gets extended, of course. Let’s turn our attention now to your qualified opportunity fund, Chris, the Caliber Tax-Advantaged Qualified Opportunity Zone Fund, I believe it’s termed. It’s a traditional fund, you’re terming it in response to some of the new funds that you have about to open up, we’ll get to in a minute. But I know your first fund here, you’re actually closing it pretty soon. It’s been open a little while. What can you tell us about it?

Chris: Yeah. So it’s got a well-diversified portfolio of projects in it. It’s been the lead investor in every opportunity zone project that Caliber’s done for the last couple of years. And lead investor, I mean, in the sense that we have sometimes other opportunity zone funds specifically, typically from a single individual or a family that are co-investing with us into some of the projects that we’re doing. So essentially, in our first fund, you get access to essentially the best of what’s comes through our pipeline so far. The fund’s been revalued twice since inception. It’s up 28% in NAV. We’ve got another revaluation coming here on March 31st, and then we’ve got the closing of the fund scheduled for June 30th.

And so there’s really very little time left to come into this particular fund, but the benefit of coming into a late-stage fund like this, even though some of the equity has been revalued, is you’re probably gonna see cash flow much sooner. But right now, we’re forecasting starting cash distributions in the second half of 2023, and versus in a traditional opportunity zone investment, you’re not gonna see much cash flow for the first couple of years because you need to acquire the assets, renovate, or build them, lease them up, produce income, and then produce cash flow. And in our fund, we’ve already done that with a large amount of assets. And so the existing assets that we bought a couple of years ago are now starting to produce income that’ll be distributable. And then the last couple of rounds of assets that we acquire going into the closing will be producing income within a couple of years of their acquisition as well.

Jimmy: Oh, that’s tremendous. Quick cash flow is a pretty enticing offer if that’s on the table there. I know you’ve been on the podcast a few times, Chris. We’ve talked about your fund numerous times in the past, and you’ve presented on OZ Pitch Day. So if anybody’s been listening to this podcast for a while or attended Pitch Day, apologies, but for those who haven’t, can you tell us a little bit more about the fund strategy, how much capital you’re raising, how many projects there are gonna be, and some of the target markets that you’re going after within the fund?

Chris: Yeah. Our strategy has been invest in the best opportunity zones and build what we think the market demands or what the community is calling for. And so our first process was find the zones that exist in our region, which we focus on Arizona, Colorado, Texas, Nevada, Utah, and Idaho. And, in particular, we focus most of our investing on this fund in Arizona. I mean, we’ve got a little bit coming into Texas as well. And then find the zones that were well-identified within each major city and pick those places that we think are gonna produce the highest possible growth for the next couple of years, actually the next 10 years-plus. And then from there, we’ve been really following that place-based investment model that is what the strategy calls for, which is to understand that specific census tract. And if it makes sense to build residential in that census tract, we build residential. If it makes sense to build commercial, we build commercial. If it makes sense to build medical or whatever is required for that area. So it’s a mixed bag of product types and strategies that fit within the locations that we’ve identified.

And then further, development tends to beget development. And so, as an example, we invested in a bunch of historic buildings in downtown Mesa, Arizona, which is the third-largest city in Arizona. And that was at the same time as a new college campus from Arizona State University is opening in downtown Mesa. So that campus, if you’ve been following us at all, is now actually scheduled to take students this year and the building is nearly done. And then our buildings are all now, of course, getting tremendous amounts of leasing activity because the student population is gonna come in soon. And then those two projects have since given us the opportunity to invest in ground-up apartments, which is our Mesa Commons project that our fund has invested in as well, 144 units of workforce housing in downtown Mesa.

And so each time you have success in a development, it tends to create more opportunities to continue to invest in that census tract. And that’s what our first fund is benefiting from. And our second fund when that does come open, we’ll draft off of that track record and continue to invest in some of these census tracts.

Jimmy: Yeah. It’s a snowball effect, right? I’m gonna ask about that new fund in a second, but I know, as you mentioned, you’re closing out this fund, closing funding on June 30th. What are some of the projects that you’re bringing in at the end here to close out the fund?

Chris: Yeah. So I’ve described it as one of the best opportunity zone census tracts in the country, but the SRPMIC, which is the Maricopa Indian Community here in Scottsdale, Arizona is essentially a large portion of land right along the freeway that goes through the center of Scottsdale, which is one of the nicest cities in Arizona. And so the Indian community, I think, has over 30% poverty. And anything we do to add lease income and taxable income to the community gives them a funding source to improve their schools and do a lot of other things that improve the Indian community itself. And in exchange for that, we happen to have, like I said, one of the best locations because it’s right on the freeway right in the center of a great city.

So Caliber has over 100 acres of development property that we are investing into in that area. It includes medical developments, it includes assisted living, it includes a corporate innovation campus with a multi-tenant strategy, a bunch of great tenants that would be coming into that area. It includes entertainment developments surrounding a Topgolf. So for investors who are seeking the perfect combination of investing in a great location with great product types, with the upside that we’re all looking for on our investment that gives us that tax benefit, as well as the benefits come to the community in a community in need, this is one of, like I said, the best opportunity zone census tracts in the country. So that’s the best preview I’ll give you. When George comes for his Pitch Day, he’ll go through the details of each project. But it’s very exciting to know that investors that are coming in kind of at the late stage of this fund are gonna get a large chunk of this particular project.

Jimmy: Yeah, that’s great. Looking forward to hearing George tell us more about that on March 29th. And I’ll interrupt our interview right now to tell our listeners that if they are interested in learning more about OZ Pitch Day, or if they’d like to attend, it’s free to attend for investors. They can head over to ozpitchday.com. And at that website, you’ll be able to see the agenda, who we have lined up to speak that day, which funds will be presenting. And you can also register to gain access to the event on March 29th starting at 10:00 a.m. Eastern Time. That’s ozpitchday.com. Well, Chris, let’s turn our attention now to your new OZ funds. What do you have in the hopper? I think it’s a sustainability fund and then an additional opportunity zone fund that you’re rolling out this year. What can you tell us?

Chris: Yeah. So the sustainability fund, the best word to describe it is it’s just pretty cool. Well, what it is it’s a $250 million offering for investors seeking a very specific style of impact investing that is focused on SDG 11, Sustainable Development Goal 11 from the United Nations, which is building sustainable cities. And so this fund is being done with Caliber as the engine in partnership with a group called the United Cities North America, which is a group that is specifically focused on developing sustainable cities, sometimes called smart cities, with a mandate to build one of these projects in every major city in the United States. And so our fund is the engine to invest in these United Cities projects. Caliber is essentially the fund manager and the site selector with the United Cities as our partner, as well as the master developer for these sites to build out these specific projects.

And what United Cities brings to the table is a lot of deep tenant relationships to come into each one of these projects, sort of users in tow, which for real estate development really de-risks the entire development when you know what your lease is gonna be and who it’s going to, especially if those tenants are credit quality tenants. And in addition to that, they’re bringing in kind of a playbook that’s been successful across the world, as well as the worldwide relationships that come from their network to invest. So we thought building sustainable or smart city developments was a good idea, period, but then the idea of building them in opportunity zones where they could be most impactful is really exciting.

So each one of these is a mixed-use development. It typically is gonna include residential, hospitality, office, industrials, R&D, retail, etc., and it’s a campus-style investment. So it all feeds off of each other. So if you have an interest in that, and if you have an interest in sustainability, if you have interest in impact investing, that fund is open as of a month ago. We just barely started raising capital. And we already have our first location identified for where the first smart city development’s gonna go.

Jimmy: Well, that is pretty cool. Not only is it cool because it’s smart cities, but cool because you get the opportunity zone tax benefit as well. That’s great. And what about your traditional fund, another version of that, I believe, is coming out later this year?

Chris: Yeah. Fund I to Fund II, the flip flop is gonna be pretty quick. We close Fund I June 30th, intent is to open Fund II in July. And if you think about it from our perspective, we really only run one investment committee. So we’re running one channel where all the investments come through. If our Fund I has enough capital, it’s gonna fund those investments. If Fund I only has half the capital, then Fund II will co-invest with Fund I and complete that investment. And then Fund II will take the pipeline going forward. And so, Fund II gets to benefit from three years of Fund I’s investing once it caps out its equity, and it also gets to benefit from the co-investment feature that comes from Fund I. So for investors who have the timeline where they can wait until July to invest in Fund II, the benefit to doing that, of course, is that they’re coming in at costs with us at the earliest possible stage and, therefore, locking in the best possible return that we can produce for them.

If they need to come in prior to July or if they’re looking more for income sooner in the lifecycle of their investment, investing in Fund I gives them more exposure to a more mature portfolio that’s producing income now and potentially could produce distributions in 2023. So that’s kind of the decision-making process that investors will have with Caliber in our traditional opportunity zone strategies. And, of course, both of those funds may invest in these smart city developments along with the sustainable fund as well, because all of them are good real estate investments in the first place. It’s just a matter of allocating capital and making sure that the capital fits the strategy for each fund.

Jimmy: Very good. Well, shifting gears for a moment now, I know there’s a lot of smaller investors out there with their own qualified opportunity funds. Maybe they set up their own fund, their own captive fund with a single project in it, maybe 2018 or 2019, 2020. You are offering or you’re about to start offering an M&A program for such investors. Can you tell us a little bit about that and why it may be beneficial to some smaller QOFs?

Chris: Sure. Yeah. So let’s put our feet in those investors’ shoes for a minute. So a lot of investors in 2018 and 2019 and in 2020 were advised by their CPAs, their lawyers, etc. to set up their own family-owned opportunity zone fund. So maybe they had a $5 million exit from their business or a $10 million exit they wanted to put into that. And they may have had one project in mind for part of the capital or even all of the capital. And at that point in time, they made their first investment, and then they realized, wow, sourcing additional projects is hard. Maybe they weren’t getting the types of projects that were interesting to them. Maybe they got busy with their life and they ended up having to do something else with their time instead of actually following through and deploying the capital. So those are a common fact pattern that we’ve run into with people all over the country that have these smaller opportunity zone funds.

In addition, because of COVID, the deadlines to get your capital kept getting extended, and all of those extensions have effectively expired. So really now is the time for all these smaller funds to be making decisions on where they’re gonna invest and how they’re gonna invest. And if you take that and combine that with a fund like Caliber’s where, you know, in the beginning, at the same time they were setting up their own fund, they may have had no visibility to what we were gonna buy, but now they can look at our existing portfolio and say, “All right, I see what they own. I see what I could invest into.” We think there’s a good opportunity for investors who set up their own fund to essentially merge their fund into ours. And instead of owning, you know, one or two deals, they can be diversified across our portfolio.

We can gain access to what they’ve invested in, and if they still have capital left in their funds, we can get it deployed into our pipeline of potential deals, which may be a little bit stronger than what they have access to. So we think it’s a natural solution to lots of investors who are sitting on these small funds and setting up a simple M&A program that’s not too painful seems to be the right choice. And so that’s what we’ve done, we’ve got a relatively easy process to follow. It’s a relatively low-cost procedure, as they say, and the outcome is now you’re diversified across our portfolio. And, of course, there has to be a fit. You have to like what we have, we have to like what you have, we have to wanna be partners.

But once it’s done, you no longer have the requirements to continue to operate your fund, continue to deal with all the reporting to the IRS, maybe do the impact investment reporting, whatever’s gonna come down the pipe here from Congress once they pass these reforms. So there’s a lot of advantages to an investor. And then I think most importantly, the bigger the portfolio they’re a part of, the more likely that they’re gonna have access to a much better exit and a much higher return on their investment if they’re selling off their assets as a group instead of selling them off individually.

Jimmy: Yeah. Well, very cool. Could be a good lifeline for some smaller QOF managers who wanna take advantage, of course. I wanna zoom out here for the last few minutes of our talk today, Chris, and learn a little bit more about Caliber. Firstly, let’s talk about what Caliber is. You’re primarily the asset manager on these qualified opportunity funds that you have underway here that you’re about to close. You’re about to open up Fund II. But you can also be the developer, you have a developer background. What are the benefits to being vertically integrated and having some of that optionality?

Chris: Yeah. So we call ourselves the wealth development company and we intentionally chose that tagline at our inception because we wanna make sure the market knew that even though we were using real estate as a way to build wealth for our clients, we were very focused on what our actual purpose was, which was to grow the value of the capital that was invested with us and to deliver an investment result. Not necessarily to be able to say, oh, we built this building or that building, and, you know, you feel like the ego trip that comes with developers sometimes on what they’ve accomplished, I guess. So we’re very focused on the investor outcome. And the technical term for that is that we’re an asset manager, which basically means everybody reports to us. We act in the shoes of the investor and then everybody in the cycle, the property manager reports into us, the developer reports into us, the construction person reports into us, etc., etc. So ultimately, we’re your owner for hire, basically, if you’re an investor.

On the vertically integrated side, when we first started our business, we used to do it all. We used to do the acquisitions, run the auctions. We used to be a general contractor, a property manager, a real estate broker. And we did that because there’s a significant amount of benefit that comes from controlling each one of those processes because nobody will care more about your real estate than you typically do. And if you don’t control the services, sometimes those things can…the outcomes that you get are not very good. What we’ve learned as we’ve grown and matured as a business now that we’re a 14-year-old company and a teenager, I guess you’d say, is that investors benefit from control as long as in exchange for the control you get, you’re not giving up on the scale that comes from third-party services that provide those services at maybe a better price or a better level of quality or a combination of both than a vertically integrated manager can.

So while Caliber still has a development shop in-house, we still have a general contracting company in-house, we still have the ability to manage properties in-house, we use third parties that typically do those services, but instead of your typical, I guess, traditional asset manager that uses all third parties and essentially just hopes that the third parties they pick work out well, our developers oversee the third-party developer. So we’ve got a third-party developer that’s working on a project, they’re reporting into our own developers who are part of the co-development structure. So if that third-party developer is not being successful or is failing at getting the approvals we need, we have people in-house who can step into that process and fix it without having to fire this third-party developer or try to hire somebody new, have a multi-month delay in the project. We don’t deal with nearly as many of those issues as a lot of our competitors do.

Jimmy: That’s good. That’s some good insight into some of the benefits of being vertically integrated. Also being the developer or being able to co-develop or manage your developers as a developer and having the option to step in as the main developer if you absolutely need to. Let’s turn our attention to another part of your company, Chris. I’ve heard about your plans to get listed as a public company in 2022, sometime later this year. You would be a public alternative asset manager. What would be some of the benefits for investors if you are to become listed as a public company this year? Tell us a little bit more about that.

Chris: Sure. Yeah. So that’s been publicly announced that’s our plan to accomplish. So I can at least talk about that. I can’t necessarily talk about the form, the format, the timing, and certainly not making any sort of pitch for the stock. It’s really about just helping private investors in our funds, which are products and services here, understand the benefits of having a public sponsor. And so when you think about everything from the investor’s perspective, what do they want? They want to make an investment. They wanna know that the people that they’re relying on to take care of that investment are stable, are doing what they said they were gonna do with the capital, and are positioned to be flexible as the market changes and take advantage of market downturns. And so by having our operating company as a public sponsor of our private funds, then we’re using the public operating company as an example to sponsor the debt in our deals, which may decrease the cost of our debt, or it may increase the likelihood that we can get a better debt term than we would get if we were a private sponsor.

In addition, you know, you always see all the horrible…you know, in private real estate investing, you see some of the horrible stories of guys that took the money and bought Ferraris or did horrible things with their clients’ money. You know, if our finances are public and audited by Deloitte and available for anybody to view, then at least investors can take a look at that and see, I see what they’re doing with their money. I see that nobody’s taking capital out of the funds and buying orange Ferraris or anything like that. So it adds a level of confidence to investors. In addition, when the markets change in the private side, as an example, COVID hits and all of a sudden hotels and retail buildings and office buildings suffer, if you have access to the public markets, it’s amazing what you can do to bring in capital quickly to take advantage of those distressed opportunities.

And so our goal for our investors and our customers who are all of our private clients who invest in our funds is to leverage the benefits of our sponsor being public to be able to do those things and take advantage of those opportunities and give them access to the best quality alternatives they can find because every investor really wants one thing. They wanna meet Caliber, they wanna build trust once, and they wanna have a place to go year after year, decade after decade, and hopefully, generation after generation to invest knowing that we’re out there figuring out where the best place to invest is, what strategy is the best, when to do it. Things that they don’t necessarily wanna have to do with their time every single day because they’re living their lives.

Jimmy: Terrific. Chris, well, I wanna thank you for all of your insights today. It’s been a pleasure speaking with you, getting your insights on opportunity zones and everything else that Caliber has cooking over there in the desert of Scottsdale, Arizona. Before we go, can you tell our listeners where they can go to learn more about you and Caliber?

Chris: Sure. You can always find us at our website, which is caliberco.com. And if you wanna get to me personally, you can just email us at [email protected] I get to actually see those notes and they get routed to us so you can always find us there. And then, of course, if you wanna follow along with our funds, you can go to caliberfunds.co. That has a lot of information on the funds themselves. And we hope that you find what we say interesting. Hopefully, you’ll find some articles on our website to help you become an informed investor or continue your investment journey. And if you ever find yourselves in Arizona, please look us up and reach out because we’ll meet with you personally, we’ll drive the projects with you, and we’ll show you what we’re doing. I think that’s the easiest way to understand how these investments work and the investment strategy behind them and become comfortable making a 10-year commitment to a sponsor like us.

Jimmy: Perfect. And for our listeners out there today, we will, as always, of course, have show notes for today’s episode on the Opportunity Zones Database website. You can find those show notes at opportunitydb.com/podcast. And there you’ll find links to all of the resources that Chris and I discussed on today’s show. And also be sure to register for OZ Pitch Day at ozpitchday.com to hear more from Caliber and get to meet George Pace at Caliber Funds as he presents their Opportunity Zone offerings. Chris, it’s been a pleasure chatting with you today. Thanks so much for joining.

Chris: Thanks, Jimmy.