Multi-Family Office Opportunity Zone Investing, With Zane Beadles

How do multi-family offices invest in Opportunity Zones? And as we head to year end, where might OZs head in the future?

Zane Beadles, vice president at Mercatus Partners, joins the show to discuss how their private real estate investment company works with multi-family office investors to invest in institutional quality Opportunity Zone developments.

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Episode Highlights

  • How Mercatus Partners works with a multi-family office RIA group to allocate capital to direct real estate investments.
  • The triangle of mutually beneficial relationships that Mercatus Partners forms as a structure for their Opportunity Zone investments — the institutional quality of which benefits multi-family office fund investors coming in as co-GP equity, high net worth investors coming in as LP equity, and real estate developers and sponsors.
  • Background on Zane, and how he moved from a career in the NFL to real estate investing.
  • How Mercatus Partners started investing in Opportunity Zones a few years ago, a few examples of some of the projects they’re working on in Tampa and elsewhere, and how they evaluate locations.
  • Opportunity Zones as impact investments that can help revitalize communities that were once great but have fallen into disrepair.
  • OZ momentum — how gains from the past few years have only added gasoline to the OZ fire, and how the policy may move forward into the future.

Guest: Zane Beadles, Mercatus Partners

Zane Beadles on the Opportunity Zones Podcast

About The Opportunity Zones Podcast

Hosted by OpportunityDb.com founder Jimmy Atkinson, The Opportunity Zones Podcast features guest interviews from fund managers, advisors, policymakers, tax professionals, and other foremost experts in opportunity zones.

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Show Transcript

Jimmy: Welcome to the “Opportunity Zones Podcast.” I’m Jimmy Atkinson. And joining the show today is Zane Beadles, Vice President at Mercatus Partners, which is a private real estate investment company that specializes in multifamily acquisition and development. Zane is joining us today from Newport Beach, California. Zane, how you doing? And welcome to the podcast.

Zane: I’m good. Thanks, Jimmy. It’s good to be here. I appreciate it.

Jimmy: Absolutely. Zane, good to have you on the show today. So, to start us off, who is Mercatus Partners exactly? Can you tell us about who you guys are and what kind of work you do in the Opportunity Zone space, and a little bit about your business model?

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Zane: Sure. Yeah. Mercatus Partners is a young company. We’re a little over three years old. We were started as a partnership with a multiple-family office, a registered investment advisory group, to really act as the direct real estate investment arm of that company. So, anytime that group allocates funds toward a private real estate investment for their clients, that money comes to us to invest on their behalf, which is a great relationship for us to have.

We just recently started going outside of that network to source investment capital, and, you know, want to grow that, and offer our services to others outside of that group. It’s been interesting. It’s been a lot of fun. My partner comes from the institutional LP space. And we work with some of the best sponsors and developers across the country. We just enter those projects now on a different side of the capital stack. Instead of writing $30, $40, $50 million LP checks from his previous group, we write $2 to $5 million checks as a co-GP partner on projects, which has been a great benefit for our investors in our commingled funds. We run two conventional commingled funds so far, and two Opportunity Zone funds. And, like I said, that really acts as our co-GP capital. So, we’re able to come in early with those sponsors and developers. We mitigate some of that GP risk, by working with who we feel like is the best groups that will get projects done on time and on budget, they’ll be able to source LP capital, they’ll be able to source debt, which, you know, gives our clients a boost. They get to participate on a little bit of that carried interest when a project does well, and then gives us a good pipeline.

So, that’s our fund side of things, but our business model, we call it kind of a triangle of mutually beneficial relationships. We have our funds, and our clients that come through those funds, again, get to participate on the GP side of the capital stack, get to realize some better returns when those projects do well. We also will syndicate, or raise LP equity, for certain projects. And really, the projects that our partners like the best are the ones that they wanna hold longer term, that they don’t want to be at the mercy of an institutional LP, when push comes to shove, and they get some more control over projects. And so, that allows us to go out to single-family offices or high net worth individuals that want to pick and choose their deals, and now they get access to deals that normally would only be going to institutions. So that’s another benefit for those people. And then, for the sponsors and developers that we work with, by us coming in and helping out with their co-investment piece on that co-GP side of it, they get to spread their money around to more projects, and do more deals.

And then, again, for the projects that they like the best, we can help them source LP capital from longer-term-minded private investors, particularly on the OZ side of things. You know, these projects are 10-year projects, to realize all the benefits. A lot of institutions don’t really care about tax implications, or worried about the gains that they may have, which can handcuff a project, you know, particularly that long of a project. So, again, you know, benefits everybody because it’s flexible, longer-term, longer-mindset capital. And everybody sees the benefit in that business model.

Jimmy: Yeah, there are some big benefits to Opportunity Zones in general. Big tax benefits, and big social impact benefits, and now you’re extending that to the benefits of this particular type of business model that you have, in this triangle, and those three sides of the triangle being, correct me if I’m wrong, but the co-GP share of things, which are the investors in your fund, which are typically your very high net worth family office clients, as part of your multifamily office, and then you have a second set of investors, which are single-family offices and other high net worth investors coming in, in LP equity. And then the third side of the triangle being the developers and the sponsors of the projects that you do a thorough job of vetting, so as to minimize that co-GP risk that you’re carrying. Did I summarize that all right?

Zane: That’s it, Jimmy. You got it. One other thing that I’ll say is, you know, those two, the capital in our funds, and then the capital that we go out and syndicate, or raise for LP on particular projects, those can get crossed up, too. Those are kind of commingled. We give our investors in our funds kind of the first look at projects that we syndicate, or that we raise the LP on as well, give them a head start to kind of raise their hand. So, you know, that’s another benefit for our fund investors, that they get a pipeline of projects that, you know, if they want to allocate more to a particular project, they’ll have that opportunity.

Jimmy: Got it. That makes sense. Well, I wanna come back to Mercatus Partners, and learn a little bit more about your fund and the locations that you like in a moment. But wanted to back up and get a little bit of background on you, Zane. If I understand, this is your second career, real estate investing. So, can you tell us a little bit about your background, what your first career was all about, and how you got involved with real estate and Opportunity Zones.

Zane: Sure. Yeah. So, my undergrad’s actually in mechanical engineering. I thought I was gonna be Tony Stark when I grew up, and live that kind of lifestyle. But I also played football in college. And through that college career, you know, gained some good following, and had the opportunity to go on and play professionally. So, I have actually never worked as an engineer. I got drafted out of college, and went on and played nine years in the NFL, for the Broncos, Jaguars, 49ers, and Falcons, across those nine years. All the while, through that football career, knew that, you know, business was the direction I wanted to go when I was done. I wasn’t totally certain, but I liked the private investment world. And talking to some of my friends that were working for Lockheed Martin, or Boeing, or some of these companies that I had envisioned myself, you know, sitting in their cubicles, working on a bolt for a bomb for three months, didn’t sound as fun to me as it originally did when I envisioned being Tony Stark.

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So, again, you know, knew I wanted to get in the business world. When I retired, I went back and got an MBA, just to kind of expose myself to different areas of business, confirmed that the private investment world is where I wanted to go. And through that… I had always been interested in real estate. Love real estate in general. I started out as an LP investor in commingled funds. When I retired, I did a few projects myself, some small vacation rentals, small, you know, two to three-unit multifamily, you know, rehabbing projects, and renting them out. So, I had done some smaller projects on my own, but knew this is the space that I wanted to get into. And, you know, coming up on three years now in the space, just loving the direction, and very happy with how things have transitioned for me.

Jimmy: Got it. So, you were working on very small deals when you first started doing real estate, investing yourself, and now you’re working on much larger deals, and syndicating, or allocating a lot of capital at the same time as well. Well, what about Opportunity Zones? When did you first learn about Opportunity Zones, maybe either you personally, or as a firm? However you wanna answer that question. When did you make that transition into Opportunity Zones, and why?

Zane: Yeah. You know, I had been exposed to it in the late 20 teens, like most people. I was involved as an LP in a project myself, that, much of it was in an Opportunity Zone. And the phases that were not in the Opportunity Zone sold off. And that was my first time investing in an OZ project, was taking some of those gains and rolling them into some new land and some new projects associated with that project. As a firm, Mercatus Partners, OZ was not something that we necessarily set out to do. It was a solution for a few of our families that are associated with the multiple family office that we work with. And they had some qualified gains that they wanted to take advantage of the OZ program. So we started a QOF for them. It was three or four investors. And it ended up being just under a $10 million fund. And we went invested that $10 million across three projects, for that first fund. Two of them, we still hold. One of them, obviously, the business plan was to hold for 10 years, but we got an offer on a small development in Salt Lake City that we built, and leased up, and operated for about a year, and just could not pass up the offer that we got on that.

So, we actually sold that project here just a few months ago. But again, that was our first foray. We’re on to our second OZ fund now. It’s still open for commitment and investment. We’re at about $20 million in commitments to that project. And that project has closed on five projects so far. And we have two or three others in the pipeline right now. So, you know, this has become a big piece of our business, while us not having, you know, really set out for it to be. And, you know, I think we’ll get into, kind of, OZ in general, which will kind of explain why that has taken place. But, you know, I think it’s a great program. And the projects that we’ve been able to get into have just been phenomenal so far. So, excited about the business.

Jimmy: Yeah, I’m excited about your business as well. And I’m glad we have you on the podcast today, especially if you’re gonna be doing more work in Opportunity Zones. Always great to meet and get back together with folks doing Opportunity Zone deals all over the country. Tell me more about the fund that’s open right now, what you can tell me about it. You mentioned it’s got five projects currently closed. You’re working on a couple of others in the pipeline. What asset types are you doing construction on? I mentioned in the intro that you guys specialize in multifamily, so I imagine the vast majority, if not all of it, is multifamily. And then, also, which locations are you focused on, and why do you like those locations?

Zane: Absolutely. Yeah, so, this project, those five projects that I mentioned that we closed on in that fund so far, all of them are in the Tampa Bay area, four of them being in downtown Tampa, and then one of them being in downtown St. Petersburg, just across the bay there. Tampa is one of our target markets. Has seen huge growth, huge run-up in rents over the past couple years. And thankfully so, because some of our development projects may not have penciled, had rents not kept pace with the costs of materials and construction these last couple years.

But the majority of those are multifamily. The St. Pete project is a 19-story multifamily high-rise, with some ground-floor retail. The projects in Tampa are two large mid-rise, 300-plus unit mid-rise projects, a smaller, kind of, workforce, multifamily project. It’ll be around 100 units or so. And then, actually, the fifth project in that fund is a exciting, pretty cool redevelopment of an old historic warehouse, that will become kind of food and beverage, retail concept, with some office over the top. This project in Tampa, we’re part of the general partnership of a 30-acre master plan, that, we already started construction on the first phase, which is a 317-unit multifamily project. And then these next four that are in our OZ fund here are following quarter three, quarter four of next year is where we’re anticipating starting construction on those. But that warehouse is gonna be really cool. It’s gonna be the heart of this master plan. Big area to gather people. There’ll be a public park across the street. So, this area is gonna completely transform. It’s in the historic Ybor City neighborhood of Tampa, which is very, you know, culturally diverse, and just has this character in history to it that can’t be replicated.

So, we’re very excited about how this one will come to be. And then you asked about, you know, where we focus on in general within our business. We invest across the country, again, with top-tier developers and sponsors as our partners, most of the time. We do some small projects ourselves, just direct, but the majority of our stuff we partner with. But we have five main target markets, and it’s really, you know, not much different than what a lot of people talk about in multifamily industry, you know, high growth, high in-migration, good job stories, low regulatory, low tax, but particularly, high quality of life. You know, we want all those pieces, but then we want a market that has extra reasons for young professionals that, you know, are really the target market for our urban infill multifamily projects. And those five markets for us are Salt Lake City in the West, and then Nashville, Charlotte, Raleigh, North Carolina, and Tampa in the East. So, we focus on those markets, and try to have the majority of our investments be there. But for the right story or for the right partner, we do invest outside of those markets as well.

Jimmy: Sure. So, talking more about markets and locations, is there any different consideration given to OZ project location, compared to conventional project location for you?

Zane: Yeah. So, you know, we tried to be very diligent and vigilant on that location. We’re very location-based anyway. You know, we start with the market. But then, you know, we drill down even further, and we’re very selective in the micro-location within our markets as well. Looking at OZ, you know, I think landowners saw the potential of their OZ parcels, and land prices reflect that, you know. So, I think land prices can be a little bit more expensive for OZ projects. But we are very focused on not doing OZ projects that don’t stand on their own. We don’t wanna do an OZ project just because it’s OZ, and there’s tax benefits, and, you know, those sort of things. We wanna do a project that is just a great project, and then the OZ benefits, you know, not only for the community, but then for the investors and the tax deferral, and, you know, the no cap gain tax at the end of 10 years, all those sort of things are just kind of the cherry on top.

Again, we’re very hyper-focused on location. If the location of an OZ project is not already great, we need to be confident in the path of growth, and see that this project or that this location is gonna transform over the next 10 years. Obviously, OZ being 10-year holds are very long-term focused, so, you know, we do consider that when we evaluate a location. But we need to be able to see that path very clearly for us to feel comfortable, and be good with a project moving forward. And then one of our kind of anecdotal, or, you know, unofficial ways of evaluating a location is we go walk it ourselves always. We get a feel for it, multiple times during the day and during the week. And really, we want to have a project that we feel like, okay, would one of our mid-to-late-20 female renters feel comfortable walking around this location at night? And if the answer is yes to that question, I think we can feel pretty good about that location.

Jimmy: Yeah, I think that’s a pretty good rule of thumb to keep in mind when you’re doing site selection. Can you talk about some of the deals that you may have passed on? What you didn’t like about them? Yeah, you mentioned before, you’re not just gonna do an OZ deal just because it can be an OZ deal.

Zane: Yeah. No, yeah. One of them particularly that comes to mind is a recent one we passed on in Long Beach, California. You know, Long Beach has some fairly good OZ areas. But, you know, it’s really block by block. And we’re working with a partner that had this site under contract, and go visit the location. And it was crazy. Really, you know, one block to the west, and you’re on a great street, that has a great feel to it. One block to the east, and you’re kind of in a transit corridor, right next to a light rail station, which, you know, normally would both be great things. But it was kind of weird, just, like, right in this micro-location, there’s a lot of parking lots. And, you know, it felt like you were a mile away from all that stuff.

And there was potential for path of growth. There’s a master plan of big redevelopment that’s going on just to the south of this site, that, you know, really made us take pause and dig deep, and make sure that we, you know, we’re understanding the potential of this site. But we couldn’t get comfortable with the fact that, you know, we were very confident that this project to the south, that would transform the area for us, would be able to get built. You know, just, regulatory, entitlements, things of that sort, and then just the current economic climate that we’re in and the uncertainty moving forward right now, we just couldn’t get comfortable with it.

So, you know, we ultimately took a pass on that deal, for those reasons. But, you know, those things are kind of long and hard, and we have to take some very good time, and really reflect on that, you know, because it had the potential to be a great project. But, again, that location piece for us just came down to it, and we were just like, “You know what? We talk about this all the time, and we need to have conviction in our location, and we just can’t get there on this one, so we need to take a pass.”

Jimmy: Yeah, I wanted to revisit the Tampa projects that you’re working on in your open OZ fund at the moment. A couple questions there. I guess I’ll start with the warehouse that you’re taking over. It sounds like that’s one of the few projects that’s not gonna be ground-up construction. What are you doing with that warehouse exactly? Are you transforming it into a different type of property, or is it gonna remain a warehouse, or what’s happening to that one?

Zane: The facade will remain. It’s cool red brick. Anybody that has been or seen Ybor City, it’s a very cool place. It’s this red brick, wrought iron balconies. Ybor City was one of the first Cuban settlements in the Americas. It had a number of Spanish and Irish factory workers. It became the center of cigar manufacturing for a number of years. So, just a ton of history, and a really cool feel to it. And like I said, this warehouse is red brick, with a kind of Spanish Cuban-style architecture. So, you know, we’re not gonna change the feel of it. We want to expand on that, and, you know, just bring it new life. Right now, the plan is to do about 200,000 square feet of office over the top of that warehouse, over a top of the portion of the warehouse. And then a portion of the warehouse will be redeveloped to food and beverage retail concept. You know, think of kind of like a food hall type experience. We’ll be having a trolley stop go in, basically, right in front of the warehouse. We’re working on a community park, just across the street, that will kinda be the center of this master plan that we’re involved in. And this food hall, food and beverage retail concept, we’ve got pedestrian paseos between projects. And so it’s gonna be a really activated, walkable location, that, you know, it’s gonna have office for, you know, really become that 18-hour location, with bodies living there, and, you know, live, work, play type environment.

Jimmy: Sure. I also wanna talk with you about, one thing you mentioned a few minutes ago is that, you know, the point of your OZ projects is to create impact in the communities, and also impact for your investors, right? So, I wanna get back to that impact for the communities part. Oftentimes, Opportunity Zones are thought of as impact investments. And I’m not trying to make the claim that you’re trying to say that you’re an impact investor or that your investors have any sort of impact investing mandate. But the fact of the matter is, these are equity investments, capital investments, in communities that are typically under-invested in, oftentimes. How do you view Opportunity Zones in that light, and then what kind of impact are you creating in these communities?

Zane: Yeah. You know, I think it has taken some time for the Opportunity Zone program to prove out the intention, and kind of show the impact that it’s having. But I think you’re starting to see that. You know, thinking, this Tampa project again, for us, you know, Ybor City, in the early 1900s, was this thriving location that, you know, had great culture, and great feel, and was, you know, a tight-knit community. And through the middle of the century, kind of fell into some disrepair, and, you know, kind of really changed as a location. It’s always been an entertainment district, but it hasn’t been a place where people live or work, really. You know, there just hasn’t been that concentration of people, or office space, and the desire from people to live there or from companies to locate there. So, you know, this particular project is gonna really revitalize Ybor City. I’m not gonna say we’ll return it to its former glory, because, you know, it was what it was, and you can’t replicate that. What I will say is I think that it will revitalize and bring a new phase to the area, and hopefully, for many years moving forward.

You know, these types of projects, you know, not only do they create jobs through the construction, through the redevelopment, but, you know, it can be a good thing for the people living in the area. Like I said, you know, we’re gonna provide housing in an area that hasn’t had housing for a long time, which is, you know, a big deal. We voluntarily, as well, on these projects set aside 5% of our units as affordable units. That wasn’t a requirement for us. But, again, you know, OZ, and having a project of this scale and size, we wanted to show that that was a consideration. And, you know, it’s important for the workers that, you know, are working in the area or working in our retail, our, you know, office, you know, all those things, that, it’s important for there to be housing for those people as well.

So, I think that’s, you know, a lot of the good things that can come from it. Obviously, the tax benefits and things of that, from investors, are a big deal, and probably the biggest catalyst. I don’t think anybody can deny that or would refute that. So, obviously, those benefits are self-explanatory. But I think people can feel good about the fact that they are transforming neighborhoods that, you know, otherwise may not see those investment dollars and realize the positive impact that comes with it.

Jimmy: Yeah. Agreed. Agreed 100%. Well, in our last few minutes here on the podcast today, Zane, I wanted to get your general thoughts on Opportunity Zones. And how specifically do you view the brief history of Opportunity Zones, as it’s unfolded over the past several years? And how do you feel about the space now and where we’re headed?

Zane: Yeah. No, you know, I think, again, it was a bipartisan piece of legislation. I think everybody got on board with the potential that this program, you know, the impact that it could have into the future. You know, I think it was tough early on. The way the legislation was written left, you know, a lot of doubt or uncertainty across many things. And I think what that did is it took some time for this program to really gain some momentum. You know, for us, working with consultants that we deemed to be experts in the OZ space, I think it took them a few years to really get comfortable and have conviction in the advice that they were giving, you know, not understanding how the IRS was gonna view a certain aspect of it, or, you know, just some uncertainties around timing, and just all the different pieces that you have to deal with in OZ, and manage. I think it took them some time to get comfortable with it, which in turn trickled down to groups like us, sponsors, developers, you know, investment groups, couldn’t really have the conviction and the full comfortability, because the consultants that we were working with didn’t have the conviction and the comfortability. I think you’ve seen that really start to change over the last 18 to 24 months.

And then, not only, you know, individual investors learning about the program, and understanding that this is an option for them, and what the benefits could be for them, but, again, the comfortability and the knowledge, being able to give solid advice, and have conviction in that advice for investors, I think it just took some time, you know. But I think, again, over the last 18 to 24 months, you’ve seen a lot of momentum, not only because of these pieces and the understanding of the program, and the benefits of it, and making sure that, you know, you’re comfortable and know that you are in alignment with the requirements, but, you know, there’s been a lot of gains over the last couple years as well, which even further, I think, added gas to the OZ fire, if you will.

And so, you know, I’m excited about where the project, or the legislation is at now, and the potential of the platform to move forward. I know there’s a bill in both the Senate and the House now to extend the program by a couple years. I think the understanding is is that, you know, it took some time for this thing to ramp up and get going. But I think everybody’s really starting to see the benefits now, on all sides of it. And so I hope that legislation gets passed. You know, like you mentioned, by the time this podcast airs, you know, that may have changed. It may have already passed at that time. But, you know, again, it’s bipartisan, and I hope it even goes further than just the two years they’re looking to extend it right now. You know, real estate’s a long-mindset game, and, you know, I think this legislation, you know, could be very beneficial for cities and Opportunity Zones far into the future with the momentum that it’s gained thus far.

Jimmy: Yeah. Well said, Zane. Couldn’t have said it better myself. And yeah, for our listeners and viewers, we are recording this episode in mid-December. So, I’m not sure when this is gonna air. If it’s either gonna air toward the end of this year or the beginning of 2023. But it’s possible by the time it airs, as Zane mentioned, that the legislation will have already passed, hopefully. Hopefully, it does. But if it doesn’t, maybe it’s right around the corner sometime in 2023. You know, given that momentum that Opportunity Zones has over the last, you characterized it as 18 to 24 months, I think, and especially if the legislation gets passed, and hopefully, that’s the first step in the process for this program getting extended over and over again, and maybe being made permanent, or at least semi-permanent at some point down the road, how do you feel that momentum will impact what you guys are doing, your efforts in Opportunity Zones, as we head into the new year and beyond?

Zane: I think it will just, you know, further our conviction in the program, and continue to build that side of the business for us. You know, when that happens, and people see, you know, this bipartisan support for it, again, I think the comfortability and the knowledge of this being an option for investors just continues to expand. And, you know, I think you’ll have more and more people seeking these types of projects out. And, you know, I think most people in the real estate world know, you know, it’s really hard to make projects pencil that aren’t, you know, Class-A projects. You know, there’s definitely some different avenues [inaudible 00:31:59] have out there to, you know, mitigate some of the costs, and make projects pencil that aren’t that way. But, you know, again, the long term here, and the housing shortage that we have in this country, you know, I think this legislation has the potential to really help alleviate some of those issues and concerns. And, again, you know, long term, these 10-year projects, they turn into that workforce housing eventually. So, the long-term impact, you know, it just starts to compound on itself. So, again, I’m right there with you. I hope that this continues to be extended, and, you know, having it be a permanent piece of legislation would be great as well.

Jimmy: Yeah. That would be great. We just gotta keep calling our senators and congressmen, and telling them why it’s important, and hopefully, the message gets through and this thing gets passed sooner rather than later. Well, Zane, we’re almost out of time. I mentioned that we are recording this mid-December. We’re coming up on the end of the year. Your alma mater, Utah, is headed to the Rose Bowl. You and I are both big college football fans. What do you think about Utah in the Rose Bowl game, heading back for a second year in a row, this time up against Penn State? How are you feeling about that?

Zane: Very excited. This season, I had huge expectations for Utah coming into the year. Stubbed our toes a few times, unfortunately, and the playoff, the college football playoff, was not an option. And it wasn’t even looking like the Rose Bowl was gonna be an option. We kind of backed our way into the PAC-12 Championship Game with some fortuitous events. But, you know, in that game, had a phenomenal game against USC, really just beat them down, which was fun to see. And I’m excited to see what Utah does. Last year against Ohio State in the Rose Bowl was a phenomenal game, with a poor outcome for the Utes. So I’m hoping that they can turn things around this year and get… The program’s first Rose Bowl win in history would be phenomenal to see.

Jimmy: Absolutely. Well, good luck to you and the Utes, of course. And one more question before we go, Zane. If we have any listeners or viewers out there who, maybe they wanna talk Utah football with you, or they wanna learn more about Mercatus Partners, what’s their best avenue for reaching out and learning more about you and Mercatus?

Zane: Yeah. I’m on LinkedIn. Zane Beadles on LinkedIn. Our website, you can gain some information about our company on the website, mercatuspartners.com. And then my email as well, [email protected] Happy to have a conversation with anybody that just wants to talk shop, or, you know, anybody that’s looking for OZ opportunities. Like I said, we have a good, solid pipeline that we’re excited about. So, happy to have those conversations.

Jimmy: Terrific. And, of course, as always, for my listeners and viewers out there, I will have show notes available for today’s episode. You can find those show notes at opportunitydb.com/podcast, and there, I’ll have links to all of the resources that Zane and I discussed on today’s show. I’ll make sure to link to Zane’s email address, LinkedIn, and the Mercatus Partners website as well. And please also be sure to subscribe to us on YouTube, or your favorite podcast listening platform, to always get the latest episodes. Zane, again, pleasure speaking with you today. Great to meet you. Thanks so much for joining.

Zane: Absolutely. Thank you, Jimmy. It was a pleasure. Hopefully, somebody, you know, even if they just get one bit of information from today that helps them make good decisions, you know, that then today’s a success. So, again, thank you.

Jimmy: Absolutely. Thank you, Zane.