Keys To Successful Ground Up Multifamily OZ Investing, With Origin Investments

In this webinar, Michael Episcope discusses Origin’s unique history and philosophy, and then dives into the current fund’s strategy and pipeline.

Interested In Learning More About This Opportunity?

You can visit the Official OpportunityDb Partner Page for the Origin QOZ Fund II to:

  • Learn more about Origin’s OZ strategy.
  • Learn key details about fund and related projects.
  • Request more information from the fund sponsor.

Webinar Highlights

  • Origin’s unique history, with its founders serving as the first two investors and the firm essentially functioning as a family office.
  • The goal of offering a truly institutional investment platform for individual investors.
  • How Origin’s attitude towards Opportunity Zones evolved from initial skepticism.
  • Origin’s unique structure and perspective, viewing themselves as risk managers who prioritize staying power and transparency.
  • A review of Origin’s strategy, which will focus exclusively on ground up development of 10 to 15 assets.
  • The importance of conservative underwriting assumptions when evaluating potential multifamily deals.
  • A summary of the Origin portfolio and pipeline, which focuses on low tax, business-friendly states that are now benefitting from net migration and other factors.
  • The timeline of a “build to core” strategy, including return of capital.
  • The importance of entity structure when it comes to avoiding taxes on distributions.
  • A review of some assets in the QOZ Fund II pipeline.
  • Live Q&A with webinar attendees.

Industry Spotlight: Origin Investments

Origin Investments

Founded in 2007, Origin Investments is a private equity real estate firm based in Chicago. Designed for the needs of high net worth individuals, family offices and wealth management firms, Origin Investments provides the same level of service, terms, and results that larger institutions have enjoyed for decades.

Learn More About Origin Investments

Webinar Transcript

Jimmy: There you are, Michael. How are you doing?

Michael: Hi, Jimmy. Good. How are you?

Jimmy: Excellent. Well, the stage is yours.


Michael: Well, thank you, everybody, for joining today. I’m gonna talk about a few things. Number one, I’m gonna over Origin itself and our capabilities, then talk a little bit about our strategy of the fund, and then go over some of the deal pipeline. And then, we’ll open it for Q&A after that. And I always try to weave in some educational components in here as well. So, I will jump in to my slides here now. Let me share my screen.

So, I’ll start with about Origin. And my partner and I, we started this company 14 years ago with the goal of helping high-net-worth individuals grow their wealth and generate tax-efficient passive income, so back in 2007. And it was really about helping ourselves back then, because we were the first two investors at Origin, my partner David and I. And we built our wealth in different industries and we saw real estate as a way to stay wealthy, to kind of turn our assets into income. And I know a lot of people, you know, that resonates with you out there as well. And being active in it really meant we could plot our own course.

And I will say that the world was very different back in 2007 when we started this company. It was pre-JOBS Act. You know, going out and finding good real estate investments was not easy. And we just decided that we would do it ourselves. So we planted the seeds of Origin back in 2007. But I will say in the beginning, it was more like a family office. You know, again, we wanted to grow our own capital, but that’s where the ethos started, right? We just wanted to find great deals. And our mission today is really to transform the way individuals invest in real estate by offering a truly institutional platform for the high-net-worth individual. And what I mean by that is that we, you know, when it comes to the service, when it comes to the fees, when it comes to the deals, everything, that’s really what we set out to do.

So every investor at Origin is taxable, like-minded, high net worth, family office, clients of RIAs, etc. And today, I’m proud to say that we serve more than 2600 investors and more than 50 RIA firms, right, use us in some capacity for their real estate needs or the clients’. So I think there’s three reasons that make Origin unique, and one I alluded to already is the first that was alignment. And so, you know, we like to say that we create funds we want to invest in, and then we do. And QOZ is no different. So we’re taxable investors just as you are. And we learned about the QOZ program back in 2018, I think, with a very skeptical eye, like most people. But when we started looking at it, what we realized is that we were already in these markets, that we were executing in these markets in our third fund. And so it just made so much sense to us. We’re already here. We’re doing this. Let’s take advantage of the tax breaks, etc.

So in fund one, my partner and I, we invested more than $10 million of our personal capital, and we’ll be investing significantly in this fund as well. Now, that will largely depend on how much we have in capital gains to invest. But overall, David and I are still the largest investors at Origin. I’m proud to say we’ve invested more than $65 million in the last 14 years alongside investors and that we’ve obviously done very well as a result of that.

So I would say, though, like in terms of alignment, you know, it’s not just about the money, but when you view the world as both an investor and an investment manager and you sit in both seats, it really shapes a lot of the decisions you make. And this is manifested in our track record, which is, I think, you know, one of the best differentiators for Origin. We are ranked as a top-decile manager by Preqin, and that is a third-party rating agency. And it’s really not because of one fund, but because it’s the consistency of all of our funds, all of our past five funds. We operate four funds today, but we’ve had, you know, three funds that have gone round turn in the past. We’ve never lost money on a deal in any of our funds.

Two of those funds wound up top decile, one of them top quartile. So we continually, you know, have proven ourselves over the years. So we’re very proud to have that ranking from Preqin. We’ve generated a 2.1 net multiple on invested equity and a 24% gross IRR across our realized opportunities.

And I’ll get into why that’s really important because we don’t really…we don’t underwrite to those metrics. Certainly, we want to double our money over five years. But if we can do that sooner, if we see opportunities to sell, we will. But our typical deals over a five-year period are underwritten to 15% to 17%, and we’ve outperformed that substantially over the years. And I think we’ve been able to accomplish our track record really by saying no to average deals and then having a very, you know, kind of simple view of the world, buy high-quality real estate, underwrite it conservatively, look for, you know, more ways to win, if you will.


And we use moderate leverage, 65%. We don’t guarantee loans, so we don’t take extended risk. We don’t use things like preferred equity. Because I think, at the core, what we view ourselves as is risk managers, right? We want to be in this game for a long, long time and we look out, especially in a QOZ fund, it’s very likely that there’s going to be one, two, maybe even three recessions depending on how long you’re in this fund or another fund if you’re in till the end of the program. And so, you have to make sure that you have staying power, and being in the right markets in the right deals using appropriate leverage. That’s, you know, a very simple recipe that has worked for decades.

And I will say the track record is backwards looking. And the question is always, “Can you repeat this?” And part of this is market-driven and the other part is firm-driven. And I’ll get to the team now, which is sort of our third competitive advantage. And early on, David and I both realized that hiring and retaining talented people, that’s the key to any successful company out there no matter what you look at it. So today, we have 40 team members who are spread across acquisitions, investment management, investor relations, marketing, and operations. So everything that you need as a firm to make sure that you’re successful in operating the business and executing the goals of the firm.

And our entire organization, it’s really been designed to make your experience with us as positive as it can be. And of course, it starts by finding and executing on great deals, but I think it extends to reporting and client service and I think a lot of companies miss that. And in a fund like this, we do regular updates and we send out quarterly reports with meaningful information. And I personally have invested in a tremendous amount of PE over the years, and there are a lot of companies that do this well and a lot of companies that don’t. And I think the managers who miss this, right, they just don’t see this as important. Like it’s their job just to find great deals, but nobody likes a black box.

So, what we do is we go above and beyond to make sure you know what we know in real-time. And that’s just through regular reporting and something that, you know, we ourselves expect from managers. And so, that’s the way we operate our business as well. Our senior team members have been with us for more than 10 years, and longevity is really important because the people who are largely responsible for our past track record are the senior leaders at Origin today. And the history and the tenure of your team is important, especially in QOZ, because this is a 10-year commitment and you need to make sure the manager will be here in 10 years from now. And I can unequivocally say we will be here.

Let me jump to the next slide. So I’ll talk a little bit about fund strategy here. And, you know, like, a lot of people ask me. I’ll just, you know, talk about the IRR for one second here 10% to 12%. So there is a relationship, obviously, between IRR and length of time. IRR is a time-based metric. And so, when we’re looking at something 10 years out, you’re not going to see development returns that are 17%, 15%, 18%. It just…it doesn’t work in the same way. But what you will see is that you’re going to trade off IRR for multiple. So that is the thing to focus on here, is that 2.2 to 2.5 net multiple on this fund. And that doesn’t factor in any of the tax benefits. That all happens on your side. So, you know, if you want to look at the pretax benefits, you probably would have to get between a three and three and a half multiple on a non-QOZ investment to generate around the same, you know, after-tax benefits as you see here.

We are targeting a $300 million fundraise in this fund. We’re about $140 million into it. We started raising capital back in September, October of last year. So we’re about 45% already to goal. We are accepting new funds today, and we will be open until we either hit our cap of $300 million or until the end of 2023. The fund will be 100% ground-up development. It’s going to be geographically diversified. And I’ll get into a minute where we invest, and it’ll consist, you know, anywhere between I would say, you know, minimum of 10, maximum of probably 15, assets in the fund. And the differences between this and QOZ one…we also get these questions a lot, is that we’ve slightly tempered our expectations for the returns on this fund only because of where the market is today.

You know, everybody understands that the growth has really accelerated in some of the southern states, southeast Texas market, southwest, but also the construction costs are, you know, far higher than they were two years ago. So a project that costs $50 million two years ago, today, will cost $60 million, right? And that will ultimately eat into your 10-year returns here.

Now, what we take solace in is that we feel that the fundamentals really favor multifamily over the next decade, especially in our target markets. Now, one thing what I’ll say about predictions is that we know they are wrong, and the longer you go out, the more variability there will be in the prediction itself. But when I was talking about our track record earlier, you know, what I will say about that is that we have always been wrong to sort of the right side, and our outliers have been to the upside, because the upside is unlimited. And even when…you know, our job, ultimately, is to extract as much value out of these projects as we can. And what the projections are is really about setting expectations for you. And we’ll do everything in our power that we can to outperform those expectations. But the market will only grow so much and there’s only so much in our control.

We typically underwrite to around a 14% to 16% IRR over five year periods. And, you know, you know, from our track record, we’ve outperformed that substantially. And I think one of the reasons why we’ve been able to do that, and you’ll see this in some of the deals I’ll talk about, is that we underwrite conservatively, and it weeds out average deals, and also leaves us with a lot of ways to win. So if you were sitting on our credit committee, you don’t even have to be in real estate to understand the value in some of these deals. And so, when our team presents, we’re always looking for ways in which our base case allows us to win.

And what I mean by that is that if we’re…there’s about three or four variables, or there’s hundreds of variables in a model, but there’s three or four that really move the model the most, and one of them is growth rates. But when you’re looking at in-place rents, for example, and we’re modeling a brand new apartment complex that won’t be delivered for another 30 months in the market, and the rents are $1,800. And today’s rents are $1850 on inferior product. That feels really good to us. And those are the kinds of deals that we approve. But if the market rents today are $1850, and we’re trying to achieve $2100 in three years, those deals don’t get approved. So we’re always, you know, viewing the world through that lens, if things go wrong, if things slow down, what happens, right? And if we’re wrong, maybe we hit, you know, $1,700 rents, which isn’t going to harm us in the long run. But when you’re underwriting to $2,100, if you’re getting $1,700 rents, your project just is going bust in those situations.

So a lot of what we do is common sense. And I like to think that any layperson could come to credit committee and understand what the edge and the merits of any deal we do are.

You know, when I talk about variability, and I’ll just say this, that, you know, what I just talked about. I would say that the downside in this fund is a 1.7 to 1.8x. And the upside is probably closer to a 3x, right, barring any, you know, huge catastrophes in the world out there. And again, the forecast…you know, everybody’s in the market. It’s very competitive out there. Nobody can come in here and say, “Look, my multifamily deals are gonna achieve 3x while his are gonna achieve 2.5x,” because the market is the market and we’re out there competing and we’re, you know, as good I think, if better than, you know, most everybody out there and we’re going to extract as much value. And we hope to outperform everything you see in front of you here.

So, let me talk about fund strategy a little bit more, and this is really about where we invest now. And the general philosophy of what we’re looking for is we’re in low-tax states, business-friendly states, moderate climate, right? These are otherwise known as sort of the smile states across the lower United States. And we were here well before COVID, and COVID certainly accelerated all of this demographic growth. And these cities have been benefiting from migration from the north to the south for more than 50 or 60 years, and COVID obviously made this more apparent. So it brought a lot of that growth forward in the markets.

We’re headquartered in Chicago, but we have deal sourcing offices in Charlotte, Nashville, Dallas, and Phoenix. And I should note that we do not invest in Chicago. We actually did do one deal in Chicago in QOZ one. Chicago, you know, it’s not necessarily a sell market, It’s certainly a contrarian market. We have our challenges here. But in QOZ two, we will not be investing in Chicago, only in the markets you see there or the states you see there.

And back to the offices. So, you know, a lot of time ago, David and I decided that, you know, even though we are headquartered in Chicago, we want to invest in these other cities where there was a lot more growth than Chicago and other opportunities. We actually planted seeds down there. So we created these local offices with officers in those regions to really understand the cities block by block, deal by deal, because you have to. Real estate at the end of the day is local, and we didn’t want to be flying to the markets and be learning on the fly, because that’s how you make mistakes. It’s the unknown unknowns that that really hurt you. So having those relationships, having the presence in the market, is a huge advantage for us.

The last thing I’ll say is that, you know, when it comes to market selection, we are data-driven. And that is…it’s one of the things that gives us distinct advantage in the market. And we set out a couple of years ago to build a predictive analytical tool. We call it Origin Multilytics, and we own it. And this is for our benefit and all of our investors. And basically, what this tool is, is it analyzes millions of pieces of data at the national level, it helps us focus on markets, it helps us look at rent growth, etc. Because one thing you know in any financial model, revenue growth is one of the biggest drivers of performance. And for years and years, we rented other tools in the market. But this is something that’s core to our business, and we were frustrated because these models, even though we were paying a lot for different models and comparing these to one another, they were what I’ll call a black box. You didn’t really understand how they work. There was no backtesting. When we did our backtesting, they weren’t accurate. So in a lot of ways, we were forced to build this. And we sort of…we took a chance and we hired two people from the University of Chicago, two really data scientists, to build this predictive model.

And the tool analyzes millions of pieces of public data to arrive at one to five-year growth forecast at the market, at the sub-market, even down to the property level. And this is a huge advantage because you have to take the bias out of decision-making. Now, I will say that real estate is both an art and a science, and it helps to validate our selection and underwriting process and help us focus on where we are looking. Because when you’re dealing with 12, 15 markets out there, you have to prioritize them in terms of where you are going to focus your time. And this tool helps immensely. and it’s a proprietary tool for Origin and its investors.

Let me jump on to QOZ fund one performance. And the reason why I wanted to cover this just briefly, is to show how QOZ one was executed, because, in many ways, QOZ two is a carbon copy of QOZ one. It’s going to look almost identical except for the Chicago assets.

Some of the deals in this portfolio were sourced back in mid-2018 when we decided to jump into the program, and we were certainly one of the first movers back then. And for us, this program obviously made a lot of sense to get into. I talked about that earlier just in terms of being taxable investors. We were already operating in QOZ areas, and all of our investment partners are taxable as well. So it was, you know, in many ways, a no-brainer to sort of at least research and get into this. But we were never sure about how big the dataset was, right, in QOZ, but that became apparent that there were plenty of QOZ deals out there. And I would say, you know, like, of all the 8700 QOZ areas out there, you know, 90% to 95% are not investable, meaning you can’t develop market-rate properties and actually make money in those areas. You can do it maybe with tax credits or other deals.

But in this fund, when we closed our first deal in 2019, we raised a total of $265 million across 11 assets for a total project size of $765 million. And you can see some of the cities we targeted in fund one, and these are the same cities that are going to show up in fund two, Colorado Springs, Charlotte, Phoenix. And the biggest thing, because we’ve been in this market so long, when you plant seeds, a lot of those seeds, they don’t happen right away. But fund two investors, they really benefit from all of the activities in fund one. And our pipeline today in fund two is far more robust than when we launched fund one, and we’re a lot further along certainly than we were in 2018.

And in fact, there was a point in 2019 where we actually shut down QOZ fund one because we weren’t quite sure about the pipeline of activities and if…you know, how much money we were going to actually be able to invest. That’s not the same case today. We have an incredibly robust, some of the best development sites in the country tied up in fund two because of those activities in fund one. And my feeling, you know, we’re going to be able to invest capital a lot faster in this fund than we were in fund one. And, you know, a lot of people ask the questions. Are there still great opportunities in the market today? The answer is yes. These markets continually change. They’re evolving. Let me cover that in a few slides here. And, you know, I think our pipeline will speak for itself.

So I’m going to go on to the next slide. This is another one that I want to cover because we get these questions quite a bit about cash flow. And there’s a couple of points I want to make on this particular slide.

The first is that we…this is called a build-to-core strategy. So what we’re doing is ground-up development with the idea that we’re going to be building a portfolio of Class-A properties and holding them for the long term. And all of the properties in the portfolio will be fully developed and stabilized by 2025, and then you will receive cash flow from both operations and refinancing activities. And we expect to return a minimum of 25% of invested capital by the end of 2026. I do think that’s conservative, but for planning purposes, that’s what we’re telling people. And we will be using accelerated depreciation and maintaining that 65% to 70% leverage target upon refinance.

All of the distributions that we make will be returned on a tax-free basis. And the reason why we can do that is that we are structured as an LLC. And this is a really important point that I want people to understand, right? Anyone listening today should avoid investing in a QOZ fund that is structured as a REIT. You want to invest and as an LLC, because a REIT is a sub-optimal investment vehicle for QOZ. You’ll be taxed on any and all distributions that happen between now and the end of 2026. And this is something candidly, our accounting team and our consultants got right, but I learned about this issue six months ago and it just…it never clicked on me why this was such a big issue. Because we’ve talked to, you know, hundreds and thousands of investors over the years about this, but this is an educational point that everyone needs to understand, whether you’re investing in this fund or another fund, but it has to do with your assigned tax basis. And because you are investing pre-tax dollars in the QOZ fund, your assigned tax basis by the IRS is zero.

In an LLC, you also don’t get an assigned tax basis on your investment dollars, but you do get the benefit of the leverage employed at the property level because it’s a pass-through entity. So for example, if we buy a property for $70 million and we use $20 million of equity and $50 million of debt, the $20 million has zero basis to it because it’s pre-tax dollars. But what you do get is you get assigned your proportion of that $50 million in debt. And that’s really important because it’s that part that can be used for depreciation and also to be able to send back refinancing proceeds on a tax-free basis. The REIT does not get that. So refinancing proceeds, any distributions will be taxed in a REIT structure.

Okay, moving on. I’m going to talk about some of our deals now. And the first one I’m going to talk about is one called Edgehill Commons. And this is a deal that is actually shared between fund one and fund two. We’ve been working on this deal for, you know, almost a year now. And I think this is one of the best deals in the country, not just QOZ deals, but just one of the best development deals in the country. And I’m sure everyone is familiar with the growth of Nashville. And the thing we really like about this city is that, even with the growth, it’s still relatively affordable, moderate climate, tax-friendly state, zero taxes here. More and more people are moving there. I mean, even anecdotally, we have one of our team members who’s decided to relocate down there, and he’s moving there in a few months. And we have another office down there as well. So this is really, you know, where a lot of, you know, the young people today are choosing to live. You know, it’s not just the Texases of the world and the Floridas of the world that, you know…Nashville is really, really benefiting from this migration as well.

Now, I will say this that we don’t…like when I talk about great development deals, I don’t qualify that as saying this is a great QOZ development. We don’t differentiate between market rate and QOZ. We also do non-QOZ development and our underwriting standards are identical. There’s not a different model for QOZ out there.

This particular project, the Edgehill, it sits on the perimeter of The Gulch, which if you know Nashville at all, The Gulch is the central area. It is Nashville’s urban area and one of the fastest-growing submarkets in Nashville. And I’ll never forget when I went to Nashville, just to, you know, talk about the growth. I was there about eight years ago, visiting one of the very first multifamily developments that happened in The Gulch and we were scratching our head because this was built in, you know, kind of underneath the highway. It was built next to some transformers over there. You know, it didn’t seem that great. And they were hitting it out of the park. They were getting rents 20% above, and all the supply and demand demographics…demand is always amorphous. It’s more difficult, but supply you can measure. And they were talking about 3000 or 4000 units coming into the market on a base that was only 1000 units. So you’re talking about 300% growth. And we’re like, “That’s kind of crazy.” And the headlines a few years later were they can’t build them fast enough. And I just went to Nashville last summer. I was driving up from Florida. And it looks like downtown Denver now. You cannot see from one side to the next. It is just insane how much it’s built up. And it continues to just grow as a city and get better and better.

This particular parcel, it’s 6.8 acres of land. It’ll be a multi-phase development that will consist of more than 650 units when completed. And right now, we’re going through the planning and budgeting process, and we’re scheduled to break ground on this deal I would say late Q3. That can always push into Q4. And there’s two things about this deal that are unique besides the location. And the first is, I’ll say just the pricing of the land, because when we tied up this land, we were looking at developing around 500 units on there. So when you price land, you price it based on the density. And then we went to the city and asked for more density. And today, we’re going to get about 650 units on this particular property. And so, when you think about that upsizing of around 25%, the land value benefits significantly in a situation like that.

And the other thing to note here is that this land was put under contract last year, the summer of last year, and land values have gone up substantially since then. So when you factor in the additional bonus density and the fact that this was tied up… Oh, there goes my camera for a second…last year, you have a recipe, you know, for substantial edge in this project, and investors get the benefit of buying in at basis of this project. So this is one of I would say the more exciting projects going on, even in the country right now.

I mean, we competed against this deal for every major institutional buyer out there, and we’re super excited about being able to offer this in both our fund one and fund two.

So the next deal I’ll talk about is our deal in Atlanta. And I think the last Opportunity Zone webinar I couldn’t talk about this because it was under contract but it wasn’t closed. This is now closed. It’s a 40-acre parcel in Atlanta. We acquired this at the end of last year and this is a master plan community. It’ll be more than five phases of development. It’ll include garden wrap, townhome rentals, some experiential retail that we may or may not be a part of. We’re still working through that. Retail isn’t a core component of this fund, but sometimes with the development of multifamily, you certainly can’t help it. The city sometimes require having retail as part of the multifamily, but it’s always a very small part of our net operating income, less than 5% or 10% of any single property.

And this is going to keep us busy for many years. It’s likely there will be sidecar opportunities available to our fund investors. We only bring out sidecars to fund investors. We did that in fund one. We had some sidecars in Colorado Springs. They were sold out in 24 hours and we had to shave people back. But I do imagine here, we will have much bigger sidecars, because we can’t put all five phases into this one fund. It would just be a concentration issue. And generally, we don’t want to expose the fund to any more than, you know, 10% in a single deal, 20% to 25% in a region.

This was an old GM plant. You know, when I visited there, just tons of concrete that we’re pulling up and demolishing right now. But it was decommissioned about 20 years ago and it’s been used as a movie studio ever since then. And I’ll tell you what we love about this project are really two things. Number one, it’s our basis. It always comes down to that. Jimmy, am I overtime? I see you coming on now.

Jimmy: Yeah, we’re getting up on the last minute or two here, Michael. But if you could wrap things up. And then, we’ve got a lot of great questions for you. But we’ll kick those over to the breakout session if we have to. Not a problem.

Michael: Great. So we’re into this land for less than $20 per square foot, and that can’t be matched. Comparable properties are trading in, you know, I would say above $30 per square foot in many cases. And really what happens when you take down a large piece like this, you get economies of scale, because there’s just not many companies who can do this. And the second reason about this particular property is the location. Atlanta itself, it’s a city that has tremendous growth ahead of it. It is still affordable when it comes to looking at sort of on a national level. And this property sits next to…really close, I shouldn’t say next to, but within a half-mile of the BeltLine, which has been a huge catalyst for the city. This is a 22-mile former railroad track that circles Atlanta’s core, and it has been repurposed for recreational use. So it’s really similar to, you know, the Beltline in Dallas, the 606 in Chicago, or the Highline in New York.

So, very excited about that project. And the last thing I’ll talk about here is our deal pipeline. And what you see in front of you is a snapshot of deals that we have either under control or in due diligence right now. And this represents another $110 million of properties right in front of you that will be closing in this fund. And there’s one that’s not represented here in Tampa that’s another $25 million of equity. So our pipeline is incredibly robust, diversified. So this fund is shaping up really, really great today.

And the last thing, the summary of terms, these are pretty standard, and you can see them in front of you. Again, carbon copy of fund one, nothing has changed. One and a quarter percent asset management fee. We do take a 50-basis-point acquisition fee, and investors receive a 7% preferred return subject to…and then we get a 15% performance fee subject to a catch up. There is a one-time setup fee that ranges from 2% to 0% depending on how much you invest. So that’s pretty straightforward here and that’s on a sliding scale. And we do aggregate commitments as well. So if you come in together, we look at those commitments all at once for the purpose of aggregating.

So, Jimmy, I finished the last two slides in record time. Thank you. I will bring myself down now.

Jimmy: You did. Perfect. Thank you, Michael. Oh, we’ve run out of time, unfortunately. But good news is, Michael is going to be available to take questions for an additional 20 minutes in the breakout session. Michael, I’ve just posted the link for that breakout session in the chat. Make sure you can access that. Just click on over there. Chris Cooley, my colleague, is standing by. He’s got the room open and he’s ready. If you want to stay in the main session, we’re about to have a panel on the state of the Opportunity Zone marketplace in 2022. So you can stay here. Or if you want to talk with Michael, head on over to that special breakout session, and then come back into the main session when that breakout session is completed. Michael, any questions for me? You got it?

Michael: I’m good. Thank you very much. Appreciate you having me, Jimmy. Thank you everybody for listening.

Jimmy: We did get a couple of questions on minimum investment for the fund. I believe it’s $50,000. Is that right?

Michael: It is $50,000. And I should always say, like, call that. If you need any more information, you can go to our website, All of our materials are available there to be downloaded as well.

Jimmy: Fantastic. All right, Michael, you should head over to that breakout session now. Thanks for coming. Appreciate it.

Michael: Thank you, Jimmy.